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| Re: C795 Frankie [message #23071 is a reply to message #23067] |
Sun, 07 June 2015 11:59   |
Iowa Boy
Messages: 767
Registered: June 2014
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Senior Member |
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Could it possibly be an inline fuse of some kind? Also was wondering if at sometime or other that maybe one of the speakers might have been a siren and they forgot to remove the cap but that should have been at the top of the cabinet, not the bottom. Of course after 40 some years, who knows what's been done to this cabinet. Thinking it might help if we knew what speakers are in it now; if it has CTS its possible the guy wanted to use it for guitar and was wanting more high end and put a siren in there.....who knows.
By any chance is it orange..........they are in my siren cabinets.
[Updated on: Sun, 07 June 2015 12:12] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: C795 Frankie [message #23075 is a reply to message #23067] |
Sun, 07 June 2015 14:29 |
chicagobill
Messages: 2006
Registered: April 2003
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This has come up before. I can't remember if there was ever a final answer, maybe Pleat remembers.
Try searching the board and see if you can find the old post. I think that the one theory that made the most sense was that when the amp was sold with two cabinets, each cabinet needed to be 8 ohms to keep the load seen by the head at 4 ohms. In the early days if they didn't have 16 ohm speakers, this was one way to fix the problem.
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| Re: C795 Frankie [message #23077 is a reply to message #23072] |
Sun, 07 June 2015 14:44 |
Iowa Boy
Messages: 767
Registered: June 2014
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Senior Member |
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I'm wondering if this was used to change the ohm output on the cabinet. I'm not sure but Kustom was one of the few companies that their amps were designed for 4 ohm total load. Just guessing here, but is it possible that these 15's are 16 ohms each and not 8 ohms? I still think this was put in as speaker protection. Bill, Steve and Pleat as well as Bart are the electronic experts here....I'm just taking some shots in the dark. Pleat is the one with the memory of an elephant, maybe he can shed some light on this thing.
Just saw Bills post.......looks like my guess was right then.
[Updated on: Sun, 07 June 2015 14:46] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: C795 Frankie [message #23082 is a reply to message #23080] |
Sun, 07 June 2015 21:03 |
chicagobill
Messages: 2006
Registered: April 2003
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Senior Member |
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If you read the dc resistance of a speaker with your ohm meter, the reading will always be slightly less than the rated impedance of the voice coil. You have two 8 ohm speakers in there.
If you are only using the one cabinet, I would rewire it as a 4 ohm without the resistor. Save the resistor in case you ever want to return it to original.
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| Re: C795 Frankie [message #23087 is a reply to message #23067] |
Mon, 08 June 2015 09:13 |
Iowa Boy
Messages: 767
Registered: June 2014
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Senior Member |
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I noticed that also but thought that Bill had the answer. What do you bet those are not the original speakers and they got switched out and the resistor was not removed? Either that or someone was trying to be creative......hard to follow the logic but who knows.
[Updated on: Mon, 08 June 2015 09:16] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: C795 Frankie [message #23098 is a reply to message #23067] |
Thu, 11 June 2015 19:02 |
bluezebra
Messages: 89
Registered: February 2014
Location: Lafayette, LA
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OK, got the second cabinet in. I took off the back and Voila!
It's identical to the first. Two 8 ohm 15 inch CTS speakers
wired with a 50 watt 4 ohm resistor to bring back to 8 ohms.
It does not appear to be have had a speaker change out.
No marks on the speaker nuts. Similar bracket and wiring to
the first one.
The only thing of interest is the speaker code shows Feb of 1960...?
[Updated on: Thu, 11 June 2015 19:03] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: C795 Frankie [message #23104 is a reply to message #23067] |
Fri, 12 June 2015 02:16 |
chicagobill
Messages: 2006
Registered: April 2003
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Senior Member |
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Exactly what is the EIA code on the speakers? The first photo shows the 2nd week of 1966.
My horizontal 2X15 Ross and Myers cabinet has no ports or holes and has 2 15" CTS, 8 ohm speakers that are wired for 4 ohms.
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| Re: C795 Frankie [message #23107 is a reply to message #23067] |
Fri, 12 June 2015 08:45 |
stevem
Messages: 4773
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY
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Senior Member |
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Yeah, but you got to remember not many USA made amps in the early 60s used 15" drivers but for Ampegs and the Fender showman or duel showman line!
Even Plush amps that used a lot of 15" drivers in there model line did not come about until 1968.
[Updated on: Fri, 12 June 2015 08:47] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: C795 Frankie [message #23109 is a reply to message #23067] |
Fri, 12 June 2015 14:04 |
chicagobill
Messages: 2006
Registered: April 2003
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Senior Member |
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I searched back in my archives and I found a message that Pleat posted regarding a choke that was added to some of the early cabinets. Bud noted that some amps would oscillate at a very low frequency, causing the speaker cones to slowly move in and out. He also noted that JBL speakers did this more than the other types.
He attributed the cause to the change in the power amp design, removing the driver/phase inverter transformer. If this was the case, then we're talking about the K200A series amps and not the Frankie heads.
We need to find out the correct date codes that are on the speakers. As I posted earlier, the photo shows a EIA code of 137 602. 137 is the code number for CTS, 6 is for the year 1966 and 02 is for the 2nd week of the year. If in fact the date code is for Feb of 1960 it would have to be something like 137 005.
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| Re: C795 Frankie [message #23112 is a reply to message #23067] |
Fri, 12 June 2015 15:18 |
chicagobill
Messages: 2006
Registered: April 2003
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Senior Member |
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Nice looking rig. It'll look even better with both cabs.
Wheels without mounting plates and all plastic, black handles are correct for the early amps.
I wouldn't be surprised that the casters could be changed. The handles are sort of like a guitar case handle. All plastic with metal mounting pivots.
The other sign of an early version is the space between Ross and Inc. The earlier artwork said Ross and Myers, Inc. When Myers left, they removed his name from the silkscreen artwork, leaving the big gap.
Check the wiring and the wiring on the doa speaker itself. If there is a cold solder joint or something it might be fixable. If not I'd look to have the doa speaker reconed to match the originals.
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 Re: C795 Frankie [message #23113 is a reply to message #23067] |
Fri, 12 June 2015 20:00 |
bluezebra
Messages: 89
Registered: February 2014
Location: Lafayette, LA
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Thanks Bill,
I didn't know that part about the name change. Interesting.
Also, the castors are different but one is bent and hard to roll. I have two sets
of the normal looking wheels. If these are original I'd hate to change them out
for just one (it still kinda rolls). If these have never been used...I have
replacements. I've already found some handles that match.
I was almost in shock when I walked into the store in Irving, Tx and found these.
They had been on their floor for sale for over two years....!
[Updated on: Fri, 12 June 2015 20:01] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: C795 Frankie [message #23114 is a reply to message #23067] |
Sat, 13 June 2015 12:05 |
pleat
Messages: 1454
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi
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Senior Member |
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I received two emails from Bud yesterday. The first one,
"Good morning Don,
This was in the fall of 67 when we started shipping the first direct drive units. The amplifiers would motorboat, especially when we used JBL. I don't remember a choke but we did ship a few with a resistor."
The problem was fixed in a couple of days. I thought we recalled the ones that were shipped with resistors. Maybe we didn't get all of them.
Bud
The second email,
"Do say hello to everyone. You are probably right about the speakers being replaced."
Bud
I'd be interested in seeing the back panel of the amp to see how many power devices are on the back.
I've seen 3,5 and 6 power devices on Frankie heads. It looks like the cabinet in the photo has no port holes behind grill cloth, which would date the cab to a very early year. Bud told us the reason some cabs have no port holes is he broke his little hand saw that was used to cut the holes.
As ChicagoBill mentioned, the early cabinets used an all plastic handle as seen in the 65-66 catalog.
Bob Brinkman was the head tech when the company moved to Chanute. Bob told me they used the local hardware store for some items. Handles, knobs and the chrome amp glides, that also are used on the legs of furnature. About 1" in diameter and has a nail in the center. I once owned an early no port 2x15 Frankie cabinet that must have shipped from the factory without casters. I saw the remains of the nail hole follow by several different caster plate patterns. My cabinet didn't have the dividing board between the speakers, just a 1x2" slat across the middle of the back panel.
I wouldn't add a second speaker jack to either cabinet. I would want to keep the cabs original. I'd make up a simple junction box that all three ΒΌ" jacks are wired in parallel to hook the cabs to the amp head. Using a Y cable, you would want to make sure it's not a shielded audio type. Not sure if they make a speaker Y cable, but then I haven't looked for one either.
In the early days and cash flow a daily struggle, you will always find some interesting ways the early models will differ from one amp or cab to the next.
I personally have never seen a Ross & Meyer Inc. logo on a Kustom amp. I've seen the Ross MFG. logo that is narrow and the labels over the inputs are Guitar and Bass.
So the cabs may contain original speakers but as production grew and things were stabilized, Kustom used only 16 ohm speakers until the slant face era amps of 1971.
So Bud didn't recall using 8 ohm speakers, but then again in the early days, Bud was also turning over the daily production to his people and he was concentrating on the front end of building a dealer network to grow the business.
By the way Bud just celebrated his 75th birthday on May 30th.
pleat
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