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Kasino U-200P [message #14114]

Mon, 26 July 2010 22:07

gramps
Messages: 18
Registered: July 2010
Location: Central Illinois

Junior Member

I have a Kasino 200P amp head in very poor cosmetic condition but is reported to be in working order. I just finished building a half stack for my grandson and thought about making on for me. Can anyone tell me what speaker ohms works best for this amp head? I am thinking about either 4 - 10's or possibly 4-12. But maybe just 2 - 12 -- I am a wood worker and will be making a matching cabinet and amp head box. Is there any schematics available for it and how do I find get a copy?

For sound -- I am a fair rhythm guitar player using a 6 sting electric, a 6 string electric acoustic and a twelve string electric acoustic in the country and gospel arena.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Updated on: Tue, 27 July 2010 01:14]

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Re: Kasino U-200P [message #14117 is a reply to message #14114]

Tue, 27 July 2010 06:07

stevem
Messages: 4745
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

that head wants to be hooked up to a 4 ohm load to let it output its full 100 watts RMS, but it is also safe to drive it into a 8 or a 16 ohm load, but you will basicaly half the wattage each time you double the ohms/impeadance you place on the amp.

Do not drive it into a 2 ohm load like on a 4-10" Fender super reverb cabinet without rewiring the speakers or you stand a good chance of blowing the amp.

If this is the PA head with 4 of the same channels, I have most of the schematics for it so PM me.

That can be a loud amp thru 4-12s, I would think that for country and church use two 12s will sever you quite well, of course since you do wood working you could make two seperate 2-12" cabinets and load each with a switch to take it from 4 to 16 ohms and than you could use the cabs split on each side of the stage when you need more coverage.
You would than be running the amp at 8 ohms (two 16 cabs in parrallel) but the two added drivers will more than make up for the drop in wattage!

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Re: Kasino U-200P [message #14118 is a reply to message #14114]

Tue, 27 July 2010 10:22

gramps
Messages: 18
Registered: July 2010
Location: Central Illinois

Junior Member

Thanks -- I have little knowledge about amp head but it fascinated me since it's "vintage" and so am I. I do remember them from the 70's. I will check it out further and if I have more questions--- I am thankful there is a place to get some answers. Thank you so much for your courtesy and willingness to help.

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Re: Kasino U-200P [message #14122 is a reply to message #14118]

Tue, 27 July 2010 17:09

gramps
Messages: 18
Registered: July 2010
Location: Central Illinois

Junior Member

I believe this is a public address amp. It is the same as the picture on this web sight for public address, the one in the back on the left. 4 inputs and 16 knobs on front. I hope that help identify which one I am working with.

[Updated on: Tue, 27 July 2010 17:10]

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Re: Kasino U-200P [message #14123 is a reply to message #14122]

Tue, 27 July 2010 17:32

pleat
Messages: 1453
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi

Senior Member

Gramps, you do have the PA head. Kasino made two versions that look the same. The Club and the Concert models and will say which model it is on the front panel just under the Kasino logo. The Club PA is designed to run a total of 8 ohms to the amp.
The concert is designed to run a 4 ohm total load to the amp.
So you will want to keep that in mind when building speaker cabinets. They were basically a sister model to the K100-5 PA amp and the K200-5 PA amp.
pleat

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Re: Kasino U-200P [message #14127 is a reply to message #14123]

Tue, 27 July 2010 18:32

gramps
Messages: 18
Registered: July 2010
Location: Central Illinois

Junior Member

Thanks -- that helps. Not sure yet how good it is (due here tomorrow) but if working it will do what I want it to do and I can have some fun building a speaker cabinet and matching amp head box that I can use. I really appreciate the courtesy and helpfulness of those on this sight. I may be asking a lot of question as I go along. Especially if I have to get it working first. I want to be able to plug in a mike and a couple of different guitars. Think that should work. Again thanks, I really do appreciate it.

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Re: Kasino U-200P [message #14130 is a reply to message #14114]

Wed, 28 July 2010 05:42

stevem
Messages: 4745
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

As long as the head works and you have a high impeadance Mic with a 1/4" plug, or a low impeadance Mic with a transfomer everything should be well.

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Re: Kasino U-200P [message #14136 is a reply to message #14130]

Wed, 28 July 2010 20:34

gramps
Messages: 18
Registered: July 2010
Location: Central Illinois

Junior Member

OK Guys, Got it home today, It is a Casino U-200P - Concert Model. It's pretty rough cosmetically but that will all be changed. Looks like it has sat in a garage for a long time. Some minor surface rust, lots of dirt and possibly some water damage (at least to the case) . First going to replace the power cord with a grounded cord. (Old one is shot) then will begin to check it out. Thanks to Steven and Pleat for your comments so far. I may be asking a lot of question if I can't get it running.. I have been scanning other comments on the board and making notes about what I thought might be appropriate. Please forgive a new guy for asking so many questions.

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Re: Kasino U-200P [message #14137 is a reply to message #14136]

Wed, 28 July 2010 22:49

pleat
Messages: 1453
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi

Senior Member

I think you will find that everyone here loves to talk Kustoms and questions are always welcome. There are a lot of guys who love to help.
pleat

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Re: Kasino U-200P [message #14138 is a reply to message #14137]

Wed, 28 July 2010 23:45

gramps
Messages: 18
Registered: July 2010
Location: Central Illinois

Junior Member

Thank you Plete & others ------ I am new at this. Grandson wanted a half stack so we made one with two 15's and rebuilt an old TNT head. It worked and my grandson is a happy camper. Now to my PA head. It had a mouse nest inside, lots of dirt and bare wires on the power cord going into the cabinet. I cleaned everything out and replaced the power cord with a grounded cord and grounded the case. For a test I hooked up an old 12" speaker -- Turned it on-- no hum. I plugged in an old guitar --- checked each channel and they all work. It seemed to have fair volume with a clean sound. All the controls do seem to work. All four channels are about the same volume. The reverb is not strong and not much sustain. This may take a little work. Is the reverb controlled from a foot switch? I have never used a PA system like this so this is a learning experience.

I have three 12" speakers that are pretty good -- 8 ohms each. Probably go with a tall stack of 2 - 12" (not sure how to wire it for three) might be interesting though --- some kind of series /parallel wiring? Feeling much better about this project. I am open to ideas and want to know how to get the best out of this. And I will absolutely need new knobs. Thanks

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Re: Kasino U-200P [message #14140 is a reply to message #14114]

Thu, 29 July 2010 05:50

stevem
Messages: 4745
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

In regards to the foot switch, all it does is turn the reverb off so in a case like yours if you check inside the pan you will most likly find one of the two long springs has detached from eitheir end of its mounting solenoid.

In that case its time to get a new pan from Antique Electronics to get the verb back up to its normal state.

Speaker wise their is no good way to wire 3 8 ohm drivers to work with the amp.
You have a choise of wiring them in serise for a 16 ohm load and some 35 watts of RMS wattge from the amp, or wire them in parallel for a 4 ohm load and 100 watts of RMS power from the amp.
Not too hard of a choise is it now!

I had a poor old Kustom head once that was kept in a dry but rodent filled basement, and their was so many living in the thing a using it as a tolet that a whole 2" x 2" section of the floor of the amp was burned away from mouse piss!

[Updated on: Thu, 29 July 2010 05:53]

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Re: Kasino U-200P [message #14141 is a reply to message #14138]

Thu, 29 July 2010 07:06

pleat
Messages: 1453
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi

Senior Member

Gramps, you mentioned you have three 12" speakers that are 8 ohms each. If you are going to use all three speakers, you can wire two of them in series for 16 ohm load, and wire the 3rd one in parallel, so you would have a 5.6 ohm load to the head. This will work, but keep in mind, you will have the pair wired in series taking 50% of the power and the speaker wired in parallel will be handling the other 50% of the load.
pleat

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Re: Kasino U-200P [message #14145 is a reply to message #14141]

Thu, 29 July 2010 10:42

gramps
Messages: 18
Registered: July 2010
Location: Central Illinois

Junior Member

Stevem -- your right --- there really is no good choice on the speakers. I will go with two 12's. I have a cuople of organ 12" speakers. Will see what they sound like but --- I am afraid it would be easy to blow them with this amp. If it works well I will probably replace them with better speakers.

I like Kustom gear! I currently use a Kuston Quad 100 DFX and an old Pentone mini brute III. I use the Pentone for the acoustic electric guitars specially for the 12 string. Great sound. I gave my old Gibson Travelier (1960's)tube amp to my son who loves it. My son is a better player and my grandson can blow us both away.

Now to the reverb, peel back the cover and check if one end is detached? If so I will replace it. Thanks for the web sight.

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Re: Kasino U-200P [message #14146 is a reply to message #14114]

Thu, 29 July 2010 10:50

stevem
Messages: 4745
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

If they are Alnico magnet speakers they should be good for 15 watts RMS each which can be pretty loud,if you have ever played thru a 30 watt Vox AC30 you will know what I mean.

If they are ciramic magnet drivers they should hold up to at least 25 watts RMS.

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Re: Kasino U-200P [message #14150 is a reply to message #14146]

Thu, 29 July 2010 16:15

gramps
Messages: 18
Registered: July 2010
Location: Central Illinois

Junior Member

Two things, first, I pealed back the ends of the reverb cover and both springs appear to be connected at both ends with tension still on them. Perhaps I may wait until I get the speaker cabinet made and both speakers mounted and then check it again. The speaker I had may not have been good enough to reproduce the right sound. They are not too expensive so maybe it would be better to just replace it?

Now to wiring the speakers. If I understand what you said it would be better to wire them in series as that would give 16 ohms cutting back the wattage to about 35. Since these speakers are not high wattage this would lesson the chance of blowing a speaker and even at that wattage the sound can be pretty loud.

Also since mine is the concert model I understand this one is designed for 200 watts and 4 ohm resistance so would 16 ohm wiring hurt this amp. Or should I wire them in parallel for 8 ohms since it was designed for 4 ohm this too would effectively cut the wattage. I know a little about wiring circuits but not much about impedance matching with speakers. Here I am in over my head.

[Updated on: Thu, 29 July 2010 16:15]

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Re: Kasino U-200P [message #14152 is a reply to message #14114]

Thu, 29 July 2010 16:38

stevem
Messages: 4745
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

Reverb vise if you look at each end of the set up in the pan you will see where the small wires that come off the pans rca jacks go into a small nylon transformer wire bobin.
Many times these move and slide around on there iron core and this makes for signal loses in the reverb drive.
What I do on even new pans that I install is use super glue dribbled down the core hole to fill the gap and lock the bobbin to the core.
Even on new pans this makes for better tone!

Also the connectors on the pan and circiut board get pretty tarnnished ( dull aluminum instead of brite) and cleaning them off with a small wire wheel in a dremal tool and then protecting them with some contact cleaner helps also.

Wiring your speakers for 16 ohms will not harm the amp, and if you find you do not have enought clean head room you can always redo it to be a 4 ohm load.

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Re: Kasino U-200P [message #14160 is a reply to message #14146]

Thu, 29 July 2010 23:13

gramps
Messages: 18
Registered: July 2010
Location: Central Illinois

Junior Member

Steven, I tried your idea and it really worked. Brought that old reverb right up to the sound I remembered. Love that sound. I did clean the tips and grounding on the plugs on both ends of the pan and where they connected to the circuit board.---It made a major difference. Thank you so much! I have been around long enough to know I don't know it all and I am teachable -- Thanks

[Updated on: Thu, 29 July 2010 23:15]

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