| speaker wire gauge? [message #4701] |
Sat, 14 August 2004 19:21  |
voided3
Messages: 200
Registered: July 2004
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Senior Member |
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Hello. I own and have worked on a few Kustom cabs and i have noticed that they seemed to use rather thin gauge speaker wire inside; it looks like it's 18 gauge. I prefer to use heavy gauge cable usually; i make my own speaker cables and i use 12 gauge a lot and i usually use 16 gauge inside speaker cabs. Would it be wise to upgrade to a heavier gauge even though i use the stock amps? Thanks!
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| Re: speaker wire gauge? [message #4704 is a reply to message #4701] |
Mon, 16 August 2004 01:15  |
QModer
Messages: 413
Registered: June 2003
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Senior Member |
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I have thought of doing this myself. But with short speaker cable runs it may be overkill. But again why not make sure its dead.
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| Re: speaker wire gauge? [message #4799 is a reply to message #4794] |
Wed, 08 September 2004 13:35 |
C4ster
Messages: 686
Registered: June 2001
Location: Mukwonago, WI (Milwaukee...
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Senior Member |
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If anyone tells you they can tell the difference in the sound of 10 Ga wire to 18 Ga speaker wire in a cabinet, laugh in their face. Last time I checked, the frequencies that we run with, 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz still are governed under Ohm's Law. The thing you need to consider is how much power will be wasted in the WIRE leading to your speakers. The power loss is dictated by the amount of current through the wire and the resistance of the wire. The longer the wire, the larger it should be. But remember, a cabinet rated at 8 ohms, running at 100 watts draws about 3.5 amps. A piece of 18 Ga wire is rated at 6 amps. Now that is usually rated in 100 foot lengths. Inside of a speaker enclosure, run 18 or 16 to your speakers. It will make wiring easier, plus NO ONE will hear the difference. If you are running 100 feet from your amp to the speaker, maybe consider 14 Ga. I am running 1700 watts into 2 ohms and I use 12 Ga for 50 feet and then I split to 2 3x15 columns and use 14 Ga for 25 Feet. The current out of the amp is 29 amps. I am not concerned that the wire is too small. Electricity is my day job, music is my night job.
Conrad
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| Re: speaker wire gauge? [message #4802 is a reply to message #4800] |
Wed, 08 September 2004 14:47 |
C4ster
Messages: 686
Registered: June 2001
Location: Mukwonago, WI (Milwaukee...
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Senior Member |
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My system uses a QSC PLX3402 and PLX1602. I am running 1/2 of the PLX3402 into 4 JBL E140 speakers in 2 3x15 siren cabinets at 2 ohms and the other 1/2 into 2 4x12 columns with JBL E120 speakers at 4 ohms. The 1602 is for the monitors and I have a Sunn SA21 600 watt amp for the horns. I have the amps in a rack that also has the effects, crossover, graphics and compressors. I like having the amps where I can see them. I built a 5 channel power snake that has a 50 foot, 10 conductor, 12 ga cable that plugs into the amps and then I split the speakers at the stage in a heavy duty Hoffman enclosure with Neutrik connectors. Eventually I will have to place the power amps on the stage behind the cabs but for now it works rather well. I will have to get a family photo of my setup with the entire Kustom stage in full glory. Pictures of my collection are scattered at the Kustomplayer.com website. My rack is a new China 2x15 Jensen cabinet with the speakers removed and rack rails installed. That is in T&R Charcoal.
Conrad
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| Re: speaker wire gauge? [message #4806 is a reply to message #4802] |
Thu, 09 September 2004 00:18 |
QModer
Messages: 413
Registered: June 2003
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Senior Member |
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Your Pa set up is kinda near mine. I use a QSC3402 as well, along with two mackie 1400I's. I build my own amp rack as well and use and old centron power amp on it that powers the Kustom cabs used for bass guitar too.
My Pa cabs are unfortunally only yamies however. I've only got five Kustoms though so I can't spare any for Pa usage right now. I'll bet your system sounds fanastic. Its got everything fifteens for lows, twelves for mids, and the horns for highs. I'll bet it really looks sharp too.
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| Re: speaker wire gauge? [message #4808 is a reply to message #4806] |
Thu, 09 September 2004 08:50 |
C4ster
Messages: 686
Registered: June 2001
Location: Mukwonago, WI (Milwaukee...
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Senior Member |
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It actually surprises people. The sound is more than fantastic. I hope to add 2 more 3x15 sirens for more bottom end. That's in the future though.
Conrad
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| Re: speaker wire gauge? [message #4810 is a reply to message #4808] |
Thu, 09 September 2004 23:53 |
QModer
Messages: 413
Registered: June 2003
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Senior Member |
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It would'nt surprize me at all that with two of the three fifteen with the police serens on top thats four fifteens that you already have all the bottom that you need. Especially powered by the 3402. I have eight yamies but thats only four fifteens per side. Not to mention all of those twelves you have for the mids that I'm missing. The old Kustom columns were very efficient and unrated in my book for Pa.
I can remember some really loud bands that I played in back in the old days with just two four twelve Kustom columns and a two hundred head for Pa. They are really a work horse. My system only has twelves in the monitor system and I'm sure they are missed on the mains. My monitor system cabs are mostly fender and yamie monitor cabs. What do you use for monitors?
Do you mic everything up into it? I have almost enought mics but have never done it yet. I have'nt played outdoors yet where there was going to be a sufficiently large crowd there to do it. What kind of board do you use? I only have and old Sunn sixteen mic line board. I was thinking of adding a beringer or a yamie and use it as the vocal board then the old sunn would be a back up and sub board for micing. What do you think of those boards?
I know some people really bad mouth beringer but I got a little board that I got from them to mix keyboards that was under a hundred bucks and four mic line channels. I use it right now for bass into the centron amp for the Kustom cabs. I've used it to mix keys into a Kustom head and a Leslie and for vocals at small gigs like weddings and I've never had a problem with it. The sound is quite good
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| Re: speaker wire gauge? [message #4814 is a reply to message #4811] |
Fri, 10 September 2004 03:43 |
QModer
Messages: 413
Registered: June 2003
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Senior Member |
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I think we had already passed that area of discussion LOL and it was morphing into something else. But I would say that generally you are right. In most amp and speaker configuration the sixteen or eighteen guage would be fine because they are gonna be short runs with bass, guitar, and keyboard amps. Ten feet there would be considered long.
However one hundred feet can and sometimes is used in Pa cabs. I use fifty foot cords on my Pa cabs and locate the amps on stage. Some of my yamies came with eighteen guage. I switched to twelve guage cords with the same fifty foot length and gained at least three db's. Its that noticable. Now I don't know if the internal cab wiring would be that important or dramatic but if I got into a hundred foot run I'd definity consider it. But those however would be unusual conditions.
After that I switched my bass cabs to fourteen guage ten foot speaker cords. Over kill? Maybe and probably but Bass frequencies need all the help they can get.
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| Re: speaker wire gauge? [message #4815 is a reply to message #4810] |
Fri, 10 September 2004 14:29 |
C4ster
Messages: 686
Registered: June 2001
Location: Mukwonago, WI (Milwaukee...
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Senior Member |
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Actually, this is my second response. I have no idea what happened to the first one. I have a Phonic 16 channel board. It's pretty cheap but actually works well. I did have a Sunn 16 channel board quite a few years ago and I thought it was a great board. It was huge but I could get my fat fingers around the controls without changing the settings on the other channels. as far a Behringer is concerned, I have a few of their boxes, compressor, graphic and crossover and have been happy with their performance. I might go with the large 24 channel board with the VU bridge at a later date but for now I'm happy with the board I have. I do run everything through the board and that includes, drums, keyboard, sax and vocals. So far, nothing but good things to say. I think I would like 4 more 15's in the system, but I would need another 2 grand to upgrade to that.
Sorry about the foray into tech speak Deb 
Conrad
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| Re: speaker wire gauge? - guideline [message #4818 is a reply to message #4817] |
Fri, 10 September 2004 23:33 |
LesS
Messages: 477
Registered: December 2002
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Senior Member |
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Here is some info from a speaker wire guage chart:
For 8 ohm speaker:
0 to 10' run - you need 18 guage wire minimum
10 to 25' - 18 guage
25 to 50' - 16 guage
50 to 100' - 14 guage
100' up - 12 guage
For 4 ohm speaker:
0 to 10' run - you need 18 guage wire minimum
10 to 25' - 16 guage
25 to 50' - 14 guage
50 to 100' - 12 guage
100' up - 10 guage
For 16 ohm speaker:
0 to 10' run - you need 18 guage wire minimum
10 to 25' - 18 guage
25 to 50' - 18 guage
50 to 100' - 16 guage
100' up - 14 guage
.....VintageKustomFAQ12
[Updated on: Sun, 09 September 2007 22:25] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: speaker wire gauge? [message #4819 is a reply to message #4818] |
Sat, 11 September 2004 04:48 |
QModer
Messages: 413
Registered: June 2003
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Senior Member |
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Pretty much what I have done then is. One Fifty foot cable run to a speaker stack that consists of four yamie cabs from the rack amp power source for each side of the stage. I use a six foot twelve guage cord to connect each cab too. So the total comes to 62 foot of twelve guage cable per side feeding two ohms. No dout it is needed. There is not only a chart for this but a formula.
Some people may actually use the amp rack at the mixer console and run into 100 foot speaker cable runs like that. But I am with C4caster. I have build a seperate console that is out front if need be and then the amp rack and its pretty blinking lights are on stage. So that way a fifty foot run in either direction is plenty by keeping the amp rack in the middle of the stage. Then you can have a hundred foot stage. I have heard of bigger stages but I dout I will ever play on one that requires more room than that LOL..
You may not always need the fifty foot cables but its best to be prepared if you do. Then especially with the lower two ohm loads you really need twelve guage cords. You can put the board on top of the rack if you intend to run the sound from the stage and have no real need for a snake or you can put it on the console if you intend to run the sound 100 ft. away with no difference in the speaker cable runs just by using the snakes for the signal for the board and the returns for the amp rack.
So C4caster you've had one of those Sunn colisium boards. Yes mine is pretty cool too and your right its pretty hard to twist the wrong knobs on it LOL.. However the behringer and yamie boards now have the build effects that vocals would be great on. If the big behringer has the same sound as my little one I think it would be a pretty good board. Then I would just run the Sunn as the slave board micing the instruments thru it.
I know what you mean too of the expense of adding two more of three fifteen Kustoms with sirens would run up into some money in a hurry.
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| Re: speaker wire gauge? [message #4820 is a reply to message #4701] |
Sat, 11 September 2004 11:30 |
voided3
Messages: 200
Registered: July 2004
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Senior Member |
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Hello. In this case, I am not running a far distance, just from the amp to the cab it's sitting on (but I do have a PA system and I use all 12 gauge for mains and 14 for monitors). I just figured that if I use a heavier gauge cable, I might get a hint more of power, and plus it's impossible to mix up my home-made speaker cables with a guitar cord since they are so thick (and the home depot cable I use is clear). The cables I make are some heavily insulated 12 ga. speaker wire from home depot (it's only 34 cents a foot; dirt cheap). Then I buy some of the jumbo-big barrel 1/4' jacks from radio shack and drill the hole in the plastic larger to fit the cable. Then I solder on the wires, screw on the cover and, for a strian relief, i wrap tape around the cord directly next to the plastic jack cover until it is about the same size, then I wrap it over on the the cover a few times and I'm done. It'll cost you only $20 to make a 50 foot cord (or, for my Kustom guitar/bass amps, a little over $5)! I'll never buy speaker cables ever again haha. Thanks for the chart!
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