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Kustom 3x15 cabinets [message #10457]

Tue, 10 February 2009 21:47

pleat
Messages: 1453
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi

Senior Member

I guess it's time to start a discussion on the 3x15 kustom cabinets. Ever wonder how the 3x15 cabinet would sound if you removed the baffle board and flipped it upside down so the ports were in the same position as a 2x15 cabinet. A lot of the 3x15 siren cabinets would sound a lot better if the baffle were flipped and completly seal off the area where the siren horn is.
Basically making the 3x15 cabinet a 2x15 cabinet with the siren horn still on top. The internal volume of air would then be just like a 2x15 cabinet. This would work well if a player wanted to convert a 3x15 cabinet to a 2x15 and 2x10 configuration. Make up a new baffle board, The 15's would be vented like a 2x15 cab and the 2x10 would be in a sealed cabinet. It just makes a lot of sense to me.
So lets hear what everyone else thinks. pleat

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Re: Kustom 3x15 cabinets [message #10460 is a reply to message #10457]

Wed, 11 February 2009 04:49

C4ster
Messages: 686
Registered: June 2001
Location: Mukwonago, WI (Milwaukee...

Senior Member

I have 4 3x15 siren cabinets. The red 2 are earlier Ross cabs with 4 smaller ports behind the grill. The cascade cabs are later with 2 chrome 4" ports. The low frequency response of the cascade cabs is far superior to the reds. Maybe the ports? Maybe the color??? I do have the 4 set up differently, however. The cascade pair have JBL E140's in them while the reds have 1 E140 and 1 E130. The cascade are wired for biamping and the reds are wired for triamping. I was considering sealing off the mid position E130 from the bottom E140 and baffle behind the E130 and seal the midrange without ports. Then I would use the area of the lower speaker and upper siren for the lows. The siren is a sealed unit so it would effectively not be in the sound path. I just have been too lazy to do it yet. The other alternative would be to reverse the 2 speakers and the mids would be on the bottom and the lows in the middle but that doesn't sound like a good plan. But the bass speaker would be in it's own sealed area with twice the volume of one. If the question is how much volume is needed per speaker then I would for the bigger is better. It would seem that the 3x15 siren is an ideal cabinet. Much better than a 3x15. But wouldn't a 3x15 have the same volume as a 2x15 per speaker minus the taper of the cabinet? That's why I don't design speakers.
Conrad

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Re: Kustom 3x15 cabinets [message #10462 is a reply to message #10457]

Wed, 11 February 2009 06:24

stevem
Messages: 4745
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

For years I have been thinking about picking up a early 70s non-slant front 3-15" cab for bass and making a new baffle to have 2-10s in a sealed top position, but right now I do not a transport big enough to fit a 3-15 cab and all my other gear.
One other option I have been toying with is to have a new 2-10" cab made up and T&C`ed and use that on top of a 2-15" cab as I could fit all that size gear in my car.

What every happened to the days when the whole bands equipment and personell rode to the gig in one van that was badly in need of 4 new tires and three quarts of oil, then you limp to the gig, and the drummer forgot his stick bag!!!

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Re: Kustom 3x15 cabinets [message #10463 is a reply to message #10462]

Wed, 11 February 2009 08:42

ET !
Messages: 18
Registered: June 2004
Location: south Carolina

Junior Member

you're right about the ported aspect for the lower 2x15s..just a cosmetic issue to deal with as to how the ports should "look"

and having 10s up top..yeah...great combination for bass or full range PA..but I don't think you'd have the airspace needed for a decent bass driver in the 10 position if you sealed the back..true there are drivers that don't need much space, but those are more bandpass style rigs I think...likely if you added some tuned porting on the back of the cab, you'd be able to give the 10s what they need.. I'm thinking something along the lines of the Eminence Gamma series.

I remember that Bud/Andy Ross had airspace problems when they created the Krossroads AR200 bass combo in the 2x10 version...

at the old K200 (100watts RMS) levels, most any cab/airspace would have been ok...better designs would produce more from the limited drivers/wattage, but you start hammering stouter speakers with more juice.. i think you'll see some strange things happening that might take just a bit more design work..
let us know how the project goes...will be cool to see!

Play Loud!

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Re: Kustom 3x15 cabinets [message #10466 is a reply to message #10463]

Wed, 11 February 2009 17:22

Optyk
Messages: 125
Registered: August 2006
Location: Texas

Senior Member

I'm on the trail of a couple 2-15/1 horn cabs. I have not looked at them in depth yet. I want to pull the backs and see what's inside, speakerwise, of course. I don't know what kind of speakers the 15's are. They do have the round horns, of course.

Would those cabs require speaker upgrades in order to handle playing at outdoor festivals or do I simply need to add more cabinets in order to move more air and keep the Kustom cabs vintage, presuming nothing has been diddled with already. Are they stout enough to use as FOH speakers now, or do they need some help in that department?

How much power can these things handle. How do I check to see if the crossovers are functioning properly? Would these be better used in the backline as guitar or keyboard speakers? Or both?

This is kind of a 3-15 question. If the horns are dead in these units, I'll be juggling speakers to get the cabs loaded and everything functioning.

Rod

There's only two kinds of music. . . . blues and zippity doo dah.

[Updated on: Wed, 11 February 2009 17:23]

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Re: Kustom 3x15 cabinets [message #10467 is a reply to message #10466]

Wed, 11 February 2009 22:48

pleat
Messages: 1453
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi

Senior Member

Rod, depending on what you are planning on using the cabinets for. The Siren 3x15 cabinets came in 3 versions. Jensens, JBL's and Altec's. The Siren horn driver was a Atlas brand. All 3 versions were sold as guitar and PA applications. Speakers and drivers were 16 ohms which gave a total impedance of 5.6 ohms. Kustom didn't give a max. power handling of the cabinets, but I would think each cabinet would handle 100 to 200 watts. More if the cabinets have altec's or JBL's. The crossover was a simple non polarized cap of 4MF and 50vdc. I have done gig's with the jensen models and powered them with 500 watts in a club that seats 150 people. Backline on stage for guitar or keys, I think would work great. This all depends on the condition of the speakers and what brand they are. Hope you get them.
pleat

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Re: Kustom 3x15 cabinets [message #10469 is a reply to message #10457]

Thu, 12 February 2009 06:27

stevem
Messages: 4745
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

Rod, given the choise between having more wattage or more speakers to fill a out door gig. more speakers is the way to go. Twice the number of speakers will provide a 3 db gain in SPL level, to get that same jump in SPL with just wattage you would have to go ten times higher! plus your speakers would have to handle that X 10 greater wattage.
If I recall right those Atlas horn drivers only go up to 12k in freqency and only handle 30 watts, and as such blew out on a regular basis.
If you are miking drums with a over head for cymbals and also lokking for good sibilance on volcals I would offer you this suggestion.
Remove the siren horn and make a new bolt on baffle that uses the old siren studs to mount a eminence model H395 horn, purchase 2 Eminence PSD2002 drivers( these handle 80 watts)and get two #260 142 crossovers, this will crossover the 15" drivers at 2500 hz and will handle 300 watts, the PSD 2002 driver goes down to 1500hz so this will all work real nice sound wise and also give you far better control over feedback issues.
The depth of the horn and driver totals to less than 10", so it should fit with no issues in the top of the cabinet.
The Horn the Driver and the Crossover are all in the parts express catalog.

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Re: Kustom 3x15 cabinets [message #10473 is a reply to message #10469]

Thu, 12 February 2009 10:13

LesS
Messages: 477
Registered: December 2002

Senior Member

I never owned a 3x15 (can't lift it) but here is my two cents.
A Kustom 2x15 internal enclosure is approx 4.5 to 4.8 cubic feet - a little too small for two 15's.
A Kustom 3x15 internal enclosure is approx 6.3 to 6.7 cubic feet - a little too small for three 15's.
The Eminence Kappalite 3015 is considered by some people to be one of the ultimate bass speakers.
Has anyone tried putting two of these in a 3x15 cabinet?
The ideal enclosure volume for a Kappalite 3015 is between 2.5 and 3.0 cubic feet (each driver), so a 3x15 cabinet would be very good.
Another great choice for a 315 cabinet would be three 12's -Eminence Basslite S2012's (they only come in 8 ohm though.)
-Les S

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Re: Kustom 3x15 cabinets [message #10476 is a reply to message #10469]

Thu, 12 February 2009 12:30

Optyk
Messages: 125
Registered: August 2006
Location: Texas

Senior Member

Thanks for the response, Les. I looked at Parts Express' website and located the horn. I cannot seem to find the crossover you mentioned, nor can I find the drivers using the model #s you provided. I was trying to figure out what kind of cost we're looking at to get me where I want to be. I don't have a problem converting to the newer horns. I love Kustom T&R and love the amps. But I'm not a collector. That puts me somewhere south of whale dung, I imagine. My units are player units so I'm looking for function first. At some point, I may break down and figure out how to recover a T&R, but for now I'm just trying to get good sounding amps that just happen to have that retro mojo thing going.

Any help chasing down those items you mentioned would be most appreciated.

If I wind up getting these two cabs and switching the horns out, I'll have two Kustom original horns for sale.

Rod

There's only two kinds of music. . . . blues and zippity doo dah.

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