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OK, Philosophical Question Here. . . . [message #11712]

Mon, 31 August 2009 12:44

Optyk
Messages: 125
Registered: August 2006
Location: Texas

Senior Member

Not too long ago, there was a Kasino Concert head on ebay. I bid on it and won it. I removed the cheesy looking knobs from it and replaced them with new knobs similar to the ones that come on a K200. The leather handle was rotten, so I ordered a replacement handle and installed that. I also replaced the original power cable with a 3-conductor cable which gave me a legitimate ground. Everything I've read regarding the Concert amp tells me it's a K200B-5 in sheep's clothing (i.e. no tuck and roll) only tolex for the covering.

Now, here's what I've found. First of all, functionality wise, it'a a B-5. Second of all, it was made in Chanute, Kansas by Kustom. It's as loud as my other B-5. The tone is as good, etc.

Here's the big surprise, though. This unit is deathly quiet. No hiss, no hum. We're talking pin-drop status here. My other B-5 sounds like I'm barbecuing steaks when it's on. With this unit, I have to strum the strings to see if it's on. You have to crank it up in the 8-9 range to start hearing any noticeable hiss and my eardrums bleed wayyyyyy before I get to 8.

So, I have this head sitting on top of a black 2-15" Jensen + 1-15" Round Horn Kustom tuck & roll cabinet. The size of the Kasino Concert is correct, of course, but it's not a tuck and roll. Does the lack of tuck and roll on this unit remove or reduce any amount of the mojo we all attribute to owning a Kustom T&R rig? Should I find a T&R cabinet and move the chassis over to it, even though it doesn't say "Kustom" on the front? Would it still lack mojo? Should I be ashamed of myself by having such a travesty and actually using it like I am now?

Perhaps, this is like any other great fault. The first step to recovery is admitting its existence.

So there. I've bared my soul. Please be gentle. I've only been playing for 45 years.

Rod

There's only two kinds of music. . . . blues and zippity doo dah.

[Updated on: Mon, 31 August 2009 13:07]

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Re: OK, Philosophical Question Here. . . . [message #11713 is a reply to message #11712]

Mon, 31 August 2009 13:06

stevem
Messages: 4733
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

the bottom line to me is tone/sound, like 90%, if I can have the other 10% in the looks dept than thats gravy!
I have a 66 Multivox Prmire B160(you know the kind that had the imitaion two tone wood vinly for covering)
I looks like pure hell( except for the brass control panel) in fact such hell that I got it for free! but it sounds like boutique tube amps that some of my freinds have pad well over 1k for, so like your Kasino dont judge a book by its cover.

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Re: OK, Philosophical Question Here. . . . [message #11714 is a reply to message #11713]

Mon, 31 August 2009 16:24

LesS
Messages: 477
Registered: December 2002

Senior Member

I had a Kasino Club and it was virtually identical to a K100-5 internally - same board numbers.
I think the answer for why your Kasino Concert is so quiet is when it was made in comparion to the Kustom timeline.
a) The Kustom slant face amps started about Aug 1971 - were K250's quieter than K200's?
b) The SS combos started about July 1972 and my Charger was definitely very quiet, quieter than K100's and K200's.
c) The Tolex silver faceplate Kustoms started about Feb 1974.
d) The Tolex black faceplate Kustoms started around late 1976.
- - - -
(same era as a or b above) The Kasino Concert plexi faceplate SN1000 to 18500 was approx 1970 to 1973.
(same era as c or d above)The Kasino Concert blue faceplate SN18600 to 31000 was approx 1974 to 1975.

The plexi faceplate Kasino amps heads will fit into a Kustom T&R cabinet - facing backwards though. Go to the trouble to remove the two aluminum(?) bars and they will fit normally.
-Les S

[Updated on: Mon, 31 August 2009 16:37]

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Re: OK, Philosophical Question Here. . . . [message #11717 is a reply to message #11712]

Mon, 31 August 2009 17:56

chicagobill
Messages: 2005
Registered: April 2003

Senior Member

I'll agree here with Les in that the newer the amp, the quieter it will be. There are of course exceptions to this, relating to how the unit was used, stored, etc.

I've re-built 200-B heads and have made them as quiet as the Kasino in question. The basic tone of the amp does not change, so for me the mojo is still there, but the noise is gone. There are some newer things that are better than the older ones.

I guess you could do a complete swap out of the boards between the two chassis.

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Re: OK, Philosophical Question Here. . . . [message #11718 is a reply to message #11713]

Mon, 31 August 2009 18:24

Optyk
Messages: 125
Registered: August 2006
Location: Texas

Senior Member

Well, that's how I think, too, Steve. I own 3 of the 3-15 cabinets. Two of them have 2-15" Jensens and a 15" horn in each of them. The other one has 3-15" bass speakers in it (not official kustom configuration)

One of the Jensen/horn cabs is what I'm running the Kasino Concert through. The other Jensen/horn cab is powered by a Peavey Classic 50 watt hybrid tube/solid state amp. The Classic was originally a combo cabinet with 2-12" speakers in it. It was well used when I bought it in 1983. The previous owner ran it wide open most of the time, but it was hanging in there. Someone had removed the vinyl from the case and painted it with varnish or something similar. I played on it for probably 7-8 years before the speakers finally gave it up. I had a Fender cabinet with two 15's in it so I took the Peavey cabinet and cut it down to just a head and used it through the Fender cab. I finally picked up a Peavey cabinet with 4-10's in it and used it like that for several years. After I bought the two Jenson/horn cabs, I started using the Peavey Classic through one of those and it gives me the tube sound I like. I'm going to rebuild the cabinet for that head and cover it with tolex, but that's yet another project that I haven't gotten to at this time. Right now, the Peavey cab reminds me of the old Volkswagen commercials. . . "It's ugly, but it'll get you there!"

That Kasino Concert fits perfectly on the top of one of the Kustom cabs and sounds great. I must admit I wish it had T&R, but I can certainly live with it like it is.

My K200B-5 is still very usable, in spite of the hum, but that's something I'm going to have fixed soon. I bought the chassis on ebay, not working and had it repaired. Then I started looking for a case to put it in. I watched auctions for 3-4 months and the only thing I could find was a blue one, so I have a blue head sitting on a black cab. I may have it recovered and if I do, I may have them cover the Kasino at the same time. More projects, but then, I tend to keep amps for 20+ years, so I can find a way to justify the cost.

As a side note, and kind of directed at Les, I also have a Kasino Club. It had been stored in a barn for a few years before I bought it. With the assistance of some of the guys on here, I got it up and running, but it has a lot of hum on it. If the Club amp hadn't been stored in a barn for years, I'd say Les' theory about the later models being quieter might not be correct, but those electronics weren't made to deal with practically outside conditions continuously for years. The Club does make a fairly good keyboard head if I don't crank it up too much. My K200B-5 head does hum, but it's not as annoying as the Club.

So, I guess I should be even more ashamed for not honoring the mojo by using that Peavey Amp also. Maybe it's a good thing I didn't make it to Chanute for the Konvention. I might have been shot at dawn!

Rod

There's only two kinds of music. . . . blues and zippity doo dah.

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Re: OK, Philosophical Question Here. . . . [message #11722 is a reply to message #11718]

Mon, 31 August 2009 22:33

pleat
Messages: 1452
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi

Senior Member

Rod, before you recover the Blue head case, swap it for a black K200 head case. In fact I have a black one, I'd be interested in swapping. Not that I have any blue 2x15 cabinets, but I do think I know where there is a blue 3x12 cabinet.
Don

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Re: OK, Philosophical Question Here. . . . [message #11723 is a reply to message #11717]

Mon, 31 August 2009 23:25

Optyk
Messages: 125
Registered: August 2006
Location: Texas

Senior Member

Bill, wouldn't it be easier to swap the plexi front plates? Or is that a whole other adventure?

Rod

There's only two kinds of music. . . . blues and zippity doo dah.

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Re: OK, Philosophical Question Here. . . . [message #11724 is a reply to message #11712]

Tue, 01 September 2009 06:36

stevem
Messages: 4733
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

The latter amps used more metal film type resistors in the signal chain then the earlyer amps that used carbon comp types, and this plus the better made ( lower noise) but same part number transistors can make for quite a change in the hiss factor!

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Re: OK, Philosophical Question Here. . . . [message #11732 is a reply to message #11722]

Wed, 02 September 2009 14:00

Optyk
Messages: 125
Registered: August 2006
Location: Texas

Senior Member

> Rod, before you recover the Blue head case,
> swap it for a black K200 head case. In fact
> I have a black one, I'd be interested in
> swapping. Not that I have any blue 2x15
> cabinets, but I do think I know where there
> is a blue 3x12 cabinet.
> Don

Don, I left you a private message here a couple days ago. If you didn't get it, let me know and i'll resend it.

Rod

There's only two kinds of music. . . . blues and zippity doo dah.

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