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Specs on a 2-15 + Horn cabinet [message #13388]

Tue, 13 April 2010 10:31

Optyk
Messages: 125
Registered: August 2006
Location: Texas

Senior Member

OK, I've got a matched set of Kustom cabs with two 15" Jensens and a 15" high frequency horn in each cabinet

First of all, what is the power rating on these cabinets, both continuous and peak?

I'm getting a 10.6 ohm reading with my digital voltmeter on one of the cabs. I'm presuming the other is similar, so plugging both into a K200B-5 head should be putting about a 5.3 overall load on the head. This is close to the 4 ohm optimum, of course.

I've got a stereo 250 watt PA head which can handle anything from a 2 ohm load up to a 16 ohm load. If I want, I can set the head to piggyback the output wattage to deliver 500 wats mono. This is the head that's going to drive the Kustoms. Now, my questions.

I don't think we'll need 500 watts of power on anything we're scheduled to do at this point, so total power isn't an issue. Will those Kustom cabs handle 250 watts? Will they handle 500? At what point do I need to start getting nervous?

If we're just pumping vocals into the Kustom cabs, can we squeeze more out of it?

How about if we pipe everything into them, will they handle it. I'm talking 3 guitars, a bass, a keyboard, drums and 5 mics? I think they just used a capacitor as a crossover to keep the bass out of the horn on these cabs. Will that setup handle the whole band going through it? Should I replace the caps before dumping that much output to it?

I've got a couple Peavey cabs with 4-10's in them. They're rated at 100 watts each. Should I parallel those with the Kustoms to take some of the load off the Kustoms? We could do that and have a 2-3 ohm load on the mixer head?

As always, all replies are deeply appreciated.

Rod

I just don't want to blow the cabinets, obviously,

There's only two kinds of music. . . . blues and zippity doo dah.

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Re: Specs on a 2-15 + Horn cabinet [message #13389 is a reply to message #13388]

Tue, 13 April 2010 10:58

LesS
Messages: 477
Registered: December 2002

Senior Member

A 10.6 ohm DC reading means the cabinets are 16 ohms nominal.
So two of them would be an 8 ohm load.

Your power amp at 500 watts bridged at 4 ohms would be about 300 watts bridged at 8 ohms - so each cabinet would be getting about 150 watts.

The rating on the Jensen 15’s is somewhere between 60 and 100 watts RMS (120 to 200 watts RMS per cabinet)– so they should be fine with your power amp. The speaker rating seems to match up fine but the power amp could still damage the speakers if it is overdriven - hopefully the power amp has clip lights or a built-in limiter.

The whole band could run through these at low to moderate volumes – I think it would be too much at high volumes. With 5 mics I think it would be cleaner with vocals only – the bass and drums especially would be pretty hard on them.

Adding the Peavey cabs would be good idea with the amp run normally (not bridged) – running bridged it might be close to its minimum so it might run a little hot – if you do it bridged you might want to try it before you do a gig with it.
Or you could power the Kustoms with the power amp and power the Peavey's with the K200.

[Updated on: Tue, 13 April 2010 11:40]

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Re: Specs on a 2-15 + Horn cabinet [message #13390 is a reply to message #13389]

Tue, 13 April 2010 12:15

Optyk
Messages: 125
Registered: August 2006
Location: Texas

Senior Member

Thanks for the reply. OK, what if we run the keyboard, bass and drums into a separate rig, leaving just guitars and vocals in the main mixer? I'm guessing we wouldn't be pushing those Kustom cabs nearly as hard that way. I've got one of the current model PA cabs (two 15's and a horn rated at 300 continuous/600 peak)The biggest amp we have available to drive that is a K200. The next show is in a 60' x 70 building, 8 foot ceilings with acoustical tile and carpeting, with an anticipated crowd of 100-150 people. I think we'll have enough to handle this effectively, but I wasn't going to push those Kustoms anymore than I had to.

There's only two kinds of music. . . . blues and zippity doo dah.

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Re: Specs on a 2-15 + Horn cabinet [message #13391 is a reply to message #13390]

Tue, 13 April 2010 12:32

LesS
Messages: 477
Registered: December 2002

Senior Member

Yes - putting just vocals and guitars into the Kustoms should be fine.

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Re: Specs on a 2-15 + Horn cabinet [message #13392 is a reply to message #13388]

Tue, 13 April 2010 12:43

stevem
Messages: 4733
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

Those Jensen 15 inchers are not as durable as the CTS drivers when it comes to bass or low end, in fact Hammond organs regularly blow them out with all of 40 watts of power and a high a percentage of distortion.
I would limit the power they are drivn with to no more than 100 watts RMS each side or per channel with just vocals going thru them.
In fact with those loose dispertion round horns in that cabinet I do not think you will get anywhere near 100 watts of vocal power thru them due to mic feedback from the 360 degrees of dispertion those horns put out.
If you change out the horns to the latter sectoral Altec lansing type or new type 60 x 40s with a big 80 watt driver you would be far better off!

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Re: Specs on a 2-15 + Horn cabinet [message #13396 is a reply to message #13392]

Tue, 13 April 2010 21:53

pleat
Messages: 1452
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi

Senior Member

Lots of good advice. Kustom speaker charts shows the 3x15 siren horn cab as a 5.3 ohm load. Interesting that all the catalogs show the K200 guitar and bass heads with only one cab and the K200-5 PA head with two 3x15 siren cabs. I agree that when those systems were designed and built, it was an era before mic'ing guitar, drums, bass and vocals all ran through the main cabinets.
I think you have the start of a great PA, I would suggest adding a pair of sub 18's driven with your 500 watt bridged power amp for the extreme lows, and another power amp to drive the siren cabs. The caps for crossovers are 4MF @ 50VDC and I think that equals a 2000Hz crossover point. I'm not sure if your mixer is just a mixer or a mixer with a built in amp. I'd use the Peavey 4x10 columns for monitors. I guess we really need a list of all components.
pleat

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Re: Specs on a 2-15 + Horn cabinet [message #13397 is a reply to message #13396]

Wed, 14 April 2010 11:51

Optyk
Messages: 125
Registered: August 2006
Location: Texas

Senior Member

Thanks again to everyone for the replies. Wow, what a request when you asked for a list of equipment. We have 5 PA systems between the band members so here my best try at remembering all this stuff.

I own the two Kustom siren cabs, the pair of Peavey 4-10 columns, a current model Kustom 2-15's + horn cab, rated at 300 watts continuous/600 peak ( yes, I only have one and yes, a mate to it is on the list to buy soon). I own a 10 channel powered mixer with twin amps in it allowing me to have 250 watts stereo each side or 250 watts for mains and 250 watts for monitors, or bridged for a 500 watt mono signal. All of these are at a 4 ohm load, if I remember right. I own a K200B-5 head and a Kasino Concert head which appears to be an identical twin to the K200B-5. I also own a Fender Bassman cabinet with a couple 12's in it and another Kustom 3-15" cabinet loaded with bass speakers. I have a Peavey Classic amp with a 4-10 cabinet. The Classic is pumping 50 watts (tube) into that cabinet.I also have a Kasino Club PA head. It's rated at 50 watts output continuous but has a very noticeable hum if you get it much over halfway on the volume.

The lead singer has a Peavey PA system (I think it's 100 watts running into a couple Peavey cabs rated at 130 watts. He also has a Crate PA system. rated similarly to the Peavey rig. He plays acoustic guitar into a Fender Hot Rod Deville. He also has a couple Peavey monitor speakers with one 12 and a horn. They're not powered, but they do have a volume control on them. This lets you turn them down individually from the volume received from whatever power amp is driving them.

The drummer has two PA's similar to the lead singer's rig. He only sings a couple songs and so far, we've managed to not mic any of the drums.

The lead player has a Mesa Boogie.

The bass player is running a rack with a Hartke amp and a Hartke bass cab.

The female singer and keyboard/harmonica player pipes everything into the PA.

Five of us share the load singing, so there's 5 mics not counting the one for the harmonica.

We do a variety of music including 50's to 80's rock, some country, some blues and even an occasional big band tune.

That gig I'm concerned about is a fairly large room (60' x 70'), has an 8' ceiling that's acoustical tile. The floor is carpeted, half the walls are brick, half wood. It's upstairs. Downstairs is an elegant restaurant and high end watering hole. We can't go crazy with volume because of the restaurant being open. The show is for a high school reunion, so basically a private party upstairs above an open restaurant with potential acoustic problems. Also, since it's a reunion, folks are going to want to be able to get caught up on each other's lives and reminisce, so we don't want to overpower that. But we also want them dancing and enjoying the music.

Only one corner of the room has enough plugs to accommodate the show (we've got all the sound equipment plus a pretty good light show, so lots of power requirements).

I just want to show up with enough bang for the buck. You can always turn down, but there's a limit on turning up.

OK, that's it to the best of my memory.

Rod

There's only two kinds of music. . . . blues and zippity doo dah.

[Updated on: Wed, 14 April 2010 12:55]

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Re: Specs on a 2-15 + Horn cabinet [message #13400 is a reply to message #13397]

Wed, 14 April 2010 18:54

pleat
Messages: 1452
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi

Senior Member

Rod, you do have a lot of equipment. I was more interested in just PA or power amps. Your 10 channel powered mixer, what brand and does it have a full patch bay?
Here is what I would do, pan all vocal channels left, pan all instrument channels to the right. This gives you a master vocal and master instrument level controls. At the patch panel you should have left and right signal outs, you should also have Left and Right power amp inputs. I would Y the left and right outs and send the combined signal into a two way crossover. Send the low out back into one of the power amp input that would be used when in the bridged mode. Of course in bridge mode you only use the red binding post of each amp to feed a pair of subs. The hi out of the crossover will be sent to another stereo or dual power amp for driving the siren cabs. I amp guessing that the Peavey 130 PA heads have a power amp input jack that could be used in place of a straight power amp. The remaining PA heads could be configured to be monitor amps to drive the monitor speakers. Adding a pair of Sub 18s with the 500 watts will give you that bass drum in your chest, and really will save the siren cabs from over driving the Jensen's and horn.
pleat

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Re: Specs on a 2-15 + Horn cabinet [message #13402 is a reply to message #13400]

Thu, 15 April 2010 12:53

Optyk
Messages: 125
Registered: August 2006
Location: Texas

Senior Member

The mixer is a Behringer PMX2000. It has 6 channels with an xlr and 1/4" connector on each. It has 2 channels two 1/4" jacks, one for left, one for right/mono as well as an xlr connector, 1 channel that has right and left RCA jacks and an xlr and one channel with right and left RCA jacks for line and two RCA jacks for tape out.

There are two equalizers, 4 preamp outputs (1 for FX footswitch, one for monitor, one for left/mono and one for right). There are two 1/4" jacks for left and right power amp input.

I've had the unit for a couple years and it has been rock solid, regardless of some of the negative reports I've heard about Behringer.

On the back of the unit, there are two Speakon connectors for connecting to speakers/monitors.

The mixer can be put in stereo mode with half the power going to right and half going to left.

It can also be used in mains/monitor mode giving me an amp for the mains with equalizer, etc, and an amp for monitors with separate EQ.

Hope this answered your questions Thanks for the advice.

Rod

There's only two kinds of music. . . . blues and zippity doo dah.

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