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Siren Capacitor Value [message #14740] Sat, 27 November 2010 12:23   toadsoup-1 Messages: 9 Registered: November 2010 Junior Member I am putting my 1969 Gold Double bottom 2-15" Guitar amp back to original configuration, with the 15" Sirens. What I need to know is what value capacitor was used for the crossover? Thanks, Marty Report message to a moderator

Re: Siren Capacitor Value [message #14741 is a reply to message #14740] Sat, 27 November 2010 14:14   kustomoholic Messages: 227 Registered: March 2009 Location: Tulsa,oklahoma Senior Member I'll look tonight when I get home and let you know the value...I have my 1-15 + siren cab open. Answer this evening about 9pm CST Craig Report message to a moderator

Re: Siren Capacitor Value [message #14742 is a reply to message #14741] Sat, 27 November 2010 14:42   toadsoup-1 Messages: 9 Registered: November 2010 Junior Member Thanks Craig I would really appreciate it! Marty Report message to a moderator

Re: Siren Capacitor Value [message #14743 is a reply to message #14742] Sat, 27 November 2010 20:50   kustomoholic Messages: 227 Registered: March 2009 Location: Tulsa,oklahoma Senior Member That value is 10MFD at 50 volts It is a non polarized type.Hope that helps.... Craig Report message to a moderator

Re: Siren Capacitor Value [message #14744 is a reply to message #14743] Sat, 27 November 2010 20:53   toadsoup-1 Messages: 9 Registered: November 2010 Junior Member Thanks Craig!!! Thats exactly what I needed. Report message to a moderator

Re: Siren Capacitor Value [message #14745 is a reply to message #14740] Sat, 27 November 2010 20:58   kustomoholic Messages: 227 Registered: March 2009 Location: Tulsa,oklahoma Senior Member Glad to help...Good luck!!!! Craig Report message to a moderator

Re: Siren Capacitor Value [message #14748 is a reply to message #14745] Sun, 28 November 2010 16:29   pleat Messages: 1452 Registered: June 2004 Location: Belding, Mi Senior Member My 2x15 and Siren horn cabs have a 4MF cap at 50v non polarized. The Kustom speaker schematic shows the same cap. My 215+H cabs have the same 4 MFD caps as well. I don't have any information stating that Kustom used a 10MFD cap on the single 15 and siren cabs. Interesting, pleat Report message to a moderator

Re: Siren Capacitor Value [message #14749 is a reply to message #14740] Sun, 28 November 2010 16:42   kustomoholic Messages: 227 Registered: March 2009 Location: Tulsa,oklahoma Senior Member Pleat.... The cap I read from was in a Frankie 1-15 + horn cab. Looks original to me tho could have been changed for some reason. The original speaker is unknown as there was a D130F in it and some of the speaker mounting bolts have been cut for some reason unknown to me. Cab was pretty clean externally with virtually no nick or cuts in the vinyl. I don't have any other horn cabs tho I must admit I thought the value a bit high from my other ventures in speakerbuilding. I had heard somewhere they were crossed at about 500 hertz rather than 2 k as most tweeter arrays are which would account for the higher value I think... Craig Report message to a moderator

Re: Siren Capacitor Value [message #14758 is a reply to message #14749] Mon, 29 November 2010 13:07 C4ster Messages: 686 Registered: June 2001 Location: Mukwonago, WI (Milwaukee... Senior Member I know my siren's had 4uF caps in there also. I calculated the crossover frequency at closer to 800 Hz for the 10uF Someone probably was looking to add more mids to the sound by crossing to the horn sooner. I would think that would just make it tinny sounding. I think I would add a pad to the highs and hide the shaft somewhere and make the level adjustable. Conrad Report message to a moderator

Re: Siren Capacitor Value [message #14759 is a reply to message #14758] Mon, 29 November 2010 13:37   toadsoup-1 Messages: 9 Registered: November 2010 Junior Member Thanks for the replies!! Sounds like 4uF may be the ticket?? Report message to a moderator

Re: Siren Capacitor Value [message #14760 is a reply to message #14759] Mon, 29 November 2010 15:55   toadsoup-1 Messages: 9 Registered: November 2010 Junior Member Ok guys, a little update. I havn't had the backs off these cabs in over twenty years. (I had replaced the sirens with spkrs back then) So now that I popped the backs off, low and behold, the capacitors are still in the cab!! They are in fact 10Uf @ 50v caps. Again these are 1968 or 1969 cabs. So thanks again for all the input!! Marty Report message to a moderator

Re: Siren Capacitor Value [message #14761 is a reply to message #14760] Mon, 29 November 2010 16:25   pleat Messages: 1452 Registered: June 2004 Location: Belding, Mi Senior Member Unlesss you purchased the cabinets brand new, that only tells you whats in the cabs. It doesn't tell you that the caps are original to the cabinet at the time of manufacture. Your the first one that has ever mentioned the 10 MFD caps as far as I've ever heard of. Kustom used two types of caps, the first series were a large goldish colorcap mounted to the baffle board, and the wires were fiber taped to the horn bell. The second series is a white cap that was soldered directly to the horn driver. Those are the only two I've ever encountered, and both are 4 MFD in value. Very interesting. C4ster calculated the 10 mfd to cross around 800hz, I think the 4 mfd were around 2K crossover. Maybe C4ster can calculate where the 4 mfd would cross at. Of course the lower the crossover point, the more the horn has to carry and could damage the driver quicker with the lower crossover point. pleat Report message to a moderator

Re: Siren Capacitor Value [message #14763 is a reply to message #14740] Mon, 29 November 2010 16:41 Bill Messages: 64 Registered: March 2002 Location: Kansas Member My Frankie was original, never even had the back off, according to the shape of the screws. It had a 10 uF cap in it for the crossover. Thrill Bill C Report message to a moderator

Re: Siren Capacitor Value [message #14764 is a reply to message #14761] Mon, 29 November 2010 16:44   toadsoup-1 Messages: 9 Registered: November 2010 Junior Member Ok...A little history on this amp. It was purchased brand new in 1969. The guy that bought it commited suicide a month after purchase. My father bought this from the family shortly after the funeral. So prior to me pulling the sirens out, they were not taken apart. The caps ARE mounted to the baffle board and in fact are a "goldish" color. So i guess I'm going with the 10uF as it APPEARS and I stress APPEARS to be this way on this amp from the factory. Hey if it sounds like crap, I'll throw some 4uF in. THANKS GUYS!!!!! Marty Report message to a moderator

Re: Siren Capacitor Value [message #14765 is a reply to message #14764] Mon, 29 November 2010 17:12   pleat Messages: 1452 Registered: June 2004 Location: Belding, Mi Senior Member I don't think it's crap, it's just that until now, Craig and Bill having weighed in, the 10 mfd did sound strange. All the schematics I have from being a kustom dealer back in the 60's only show a 4 mfd cap. So now that there are two different caps that appear to be original, I guess the question would be if Kustom used 4 mfd in the start, and then changed to the 10 mfd or if they used both, depending on if the cabinet were designated to be a guitar cab or a PA cab. Guess we'll have to have more collectors tear open their siren cabs and see what it's using for a crossover. pleat Report message to a moderator

Re: Siren Capacitor Value [message #14766 is a reply to message #14765] Mon, 29 November 2010 17:29   toadsoup-1 Messages: 9 Registered: November 2010 Junior Member Thanks Pleat... Yeah it does appear they may have used both. I know the guy that bought it new was a guitar player, and the head is a guitar head. So I don't know!! The top is a K200A-2 with S/N 19552. I may be off a year on it being a 1969, it may be a 67 or 68. I seems like the posts fo 10uF caps were from Frankestein amps which this is not. Do you have a way of dating this from the Model or S/N?? Marty Report message to a moderator

Re: Siren Capacitor Value [message #14767 is a reply to message #14766] Mon, 29 November 2010 19:06   pleat Messages: 1452 Registered: June 2004 Location: Belding, Mi Senior Member Marty, LesS did a serial number chart here on the website a while ago, and from his findings, it would be between July 67 to April 68 according to the serial number. Is your K200A-2 head a dull etched aluminum control panel that would have the two white circuit breakers on the front of the amp, or the black plexi face control panel. I'm guessing your cabinet has the 4 port holes behind the grill cloth. pleat Report message to a moderator

Re: Siren Capacitor Value [message #14768 is a reply to message #14767] Mon, 29 November 2010 19:36   toadsoup-1 Messages: 9 Registered: November 2010 Junior Member Thanks Pleat! Black Plexi, with TWO portholes behind grille cloth. Marty Report message to a moderator

Re: Siren Capacitor Value [message #14769 is a reply to message #14740] Mon, 29 November 2010 21:30   kustomoholic Messages: 227 Registered: March 2009 Location: Tulsa,oklahoma Senior Member Mine appears to be original...save for the D130 in it. My 10uf is mounted to a pair of terminal strip on the wood peice the the cab back screws into. Bryan Sawyer has a 1-15 + H A series siren cab that I recently delivered to him ...Might be interesting to see what he has mounted in it for cap value. I may change mine... I wonder if the higher value cap was mounted with the CTS driver normally found in a bass cab to get a bit brighter sound... Would be a good question to ask Bud about sometime.... Craig Report message to a moderator

Re: Siren Capacitor Value [message #14818 is a reply to message #14743] Sun, 05 December 2010 11:56   cassent5150 Messages: 341 Registered: August 2009 Senior Member I was wondering about the same thing. I have a couple of 3X15 cabs with the horns removed and I want to put them back in. My problem is, how is the cap installed. Across positive to negative on the driver or is it just in the positive wire? Steve C Steve C Report message to a moderator

Re: Siren Capacitor Value [message #14819 is a reply to message #14818] Sun, 05 December 2010 13:18   toadsoup-1 Messages: 9 Registered: November 2010 Junior Member Steve, The cap is in series with the positive side of the siren. Marty Report message to a moderator

Re: Siren Capacitor Value [message #14822 is a reply to message #14819] Mon, 06 December 2010 08:54   cassent5150 Messages: 341 Registered: August 2009 Senior Member Thats what I thought. Thanks for the info!!! Steve C Steve C Report message to a moderator

Re: Siren Capacitor Value [message #14955 is a reply to message #14822] Sun, 26 December 2010 21:19   pleat Messages: 1452 Registered: June 2004 Location: Belding, Mi Senior Member I've been doing some research on the values of the caps used. There are two, a 4 mfd and a 10mfd. The 4 mfd was used on the cabinets that also contailed 16 ohm speakers such as the siren 3x15 cabinets and crossed at about 2500 Hz. The newer 215+H cabs that were designed for guitars used the 10mfd with the 8 ohm speakers and crossed at about 2K Hz. As far as I can tell the larger 215+H cabs that were used for PA has 16 ohm speakers and used the 4 MFD caps. pleat Report message to a moderator

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