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Hustler transistor help Q8 - Q9 ??? [message #18911]

Wed, 26 June 2013 22:34

dallek1
Messages: 10
Registered: May 2013
Location: new york

Junior Member

please anyone out there with the hustler can you tell me which transistors you have for Q8 & Q9, the ones mounted next to the power board ?

[Updated on: Wed, 26 June 2013 22:35]

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Re: Hustler transistor help Q8 - Q9 ??? [message #18912 is a reply to message #18911]

Thu, 27 June 2013 07:20

stevem
Messages: 4733
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

Hello.
Q8 and Q9 are the the two main output transistors.The orignal ones where made by RCA and are number 36892 and these where matched for Kustoms use by RCA which is a important feature that I will get to.
There are many replacements for them these days, such as NTE electronics brand NTE131, or the NTE upgrade NTE181,or the generic type made by many 2N3055 which can even be found at radio shack, or at parts express.
The issue that I made mention of before is that they should be matched for the best amount of clean auido wattage, low 120 hz idle hum and even heat output as the amp is cranked.
You can use un-matched ones and the amp will not be harmed, but it may not perform to its full ability.
Also note that these transistors are mounted on a clear mica insulator that is coated on both sides with transistor heat sink compound. most times new transistors come with new mica insulators, but you will need a small tube of the heat compound.
When appling the compound you only need a very light film of it, just enough to fill in the very very small metal voide`s on both the transistor side and the amps heat sink/mounting bar.
Excess compound that is enough to get on the two connection pins can make for a bad connection, and repaired amps have failed due to this, so go light!
SK and GE, and Motorola are some other brands/manufactures of this common transistor.
The NTE181, and a Motorola number that I forget off the top of my head are transistors with a higher FE spec and as such will produce a bit more wattage than the others.
One good tip I can pass along is to use a fine tip marker to note on the heatsink which way the two wire slip on connector faces so you do not get it wrong.
Good luck with your repair and let us know how you make out.

[Updated on: Thu, 27 June 2013 07:34]

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Re: Hustler transistor help Q8 - Q9 ??? [message #18913 is a reply to message #18912]

Thu, 27 June 2013 11:07

dallek1
Messages: 10
Registered: May 2013
Location: new york

Junior Member

i think i has 2sd1175 in there does that sound right? also i had listed from this site nte130. i installed a matched set of nte130 , i measured 70 watts output on the bench ? the nte131 is a pnp ? thanks please check this?
a funny story, just a month or 2 back a local repair shop closed and dumped bags of semi useful stuff, i was there loading up my car, it just so happened there were a bunch os 130's , mostly egc but one matched set of nte130 ? i entered it into inventory and did not even realize i had them. cute

[Updated on: Thu, 27 June 2013 11:29]

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Re: Hustler transistor help Q8 - Q9 ??? [message #18914 is a reply to message #18911]

Thu, 27 June 2013 12:08

chicagobill
Messages: 2005
Registered: April 2003

Senior Member

Yes the NTE131 are PNP and they are Germanium as well. He meant NTE130.

I'd guess that the 2SD1175s are just the power transistors that the previous tech had on hand to install when the amp was last repaired.

While convenient, NTE parts are priced way too high for me to use.

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Re: Hustler transistor help Q8 - Q9 ??? [message #18915 is a reply to message #18914]

Thu, 27 June 2013 12:37

dallek1
Messages: 10
Registered: May 2013
Location: new york

Junior Member

thanks the nte130's were free and matched it seems that the 1175's were not working that well, the main problem was the
sl14228 which i replaced with an rca4739. i guess anything is possible but all the chips seemed to have some contamination on the legs. i removed everything and put sockets and cleaned and remounted the chips. i don't know if i missed anything i pretty much went over everything including beefed up power caps . it is plenty loud and low noise, it has the cts speakers, all working. i don't like the sound myself, strange amp
thanks

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Re: Hustler transistor help Q8 - Q9 ??? [message #18916 is a reply to message #18911]

Thu, 27 June 2013 16:00

chicagobill
Messages: 2005
Registered: April 2003

Senior Member

I have a Commander which is the same amp with different speakers, and I think it sounds great for clean and country styles.

To each his own I guess. What do you find strange about the amp?

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Re: Hustler transistor help Q8 - Q9 ??? [message #18917 is a reply to message #18916]

Thu, 27 June 2013 16:46

dallek1
Messages: 10
Registered: May 2013
Location: new york

Junior Member

I have been playing a rather hot guitar through it and it definitely did not compliment it, I tried a 50th universe strat and that was different for sure. I should preface this amp was abused, I just got it back together it may need more. can anyone comment on the dual opamp on the pre board RC4739, is that an appropriate chip? it's a very bright amp and with the treble boost out "wow" I went over the tone stack and replaced with silver mica, Mallory 150's other metal film , stuff I would put in a fender. it's just very bright and immediate, ultra presence allot of thump too. I can see the country thing, another thing is I have almost no experience with 10" speakers, the fender 4 x 10 models I worked on with jbl's also hit me the same way. thanks for your reply I was looking for other people to make me accountable

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Re: Hustler transistor help Q8 - Q9 ??? [message #18918 is a reply to message #18911]

Thu, 27 June 2013 17:17

chicagobill
Messages: 2005
Registered: April 2003

Senior Member

The original chip was a uA739 which was the earlier version of the 4739. I use the XR4739 chips as replacements.

At times I have also installed 8 pin sockets and rewired the boards for more common 4558 chips as well.

Yes, they can be bright amps. I usually find that the 4-10 speaker setup works really well in a band situation where you can cut through the midrange and blend in the mix better.

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Re: Hustler transistor help Q8 - Q9 ??? [message #18919 is a reply to message #18918]

Thu, 27 June 2013 19:55

dallek1
Messages: 10
Registered: May 2013
Location: new york

Junior Member

i dont know if this is a necessary question but, do you think the xr4739 and the rc4739 would have any apprecieable difference? next i have not really looked up any other chips on the 2 boards the (pre and effects), i did socket mount and clean some other chips, well just to the point are their any other op-amps on those 2 boards? please?

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Re: Hustler transistor help Q8 - Q9 ??? [message #18921 is a reply to message #18917]

Thu, 27 June 2013 22:10

pleat
Messages: 1452
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi

Senior Member

If you think the 4 10" speakers are too bright sounding, you may want to plug the amp into a 2x12 cabinet and see if you like that better. You can always make up a new baffle board to mount a pair of 12" speakers or even a single 15". Everyone has preferences and play different styles of music.
I stay with the plexi face self contained kustoms over the slant metal face amps. I have both a K150 SC loaded with 2 Jensen 10" speakers and the K150 SC loaded with 12" eminence speakers. I like both amps. The K150SC series are two channels and I run a processor pedal into the normal channel bypassing the effects channel that have the treble boost.
pleat

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Re: Hustler transistor help Q8 - Q9 ??? [message #18922 is a reply to message #18911]

Fri, 28 June 2013 00:03

chicagobill
Messages: 2005
Registered: April 2003

Senior Member

The original chip needed to have compensation caps added to it, which I believe were not needed on the 4739. I don't know if the newer chips would change the high frequency response of the amp

I'll have to look up the schematic for the other boards, but I believe that there is a 4558 dual op amp in the reverb section and there is one or two LM3080 transconductance amps in the trem/vibrato section.

One thing that I have found in the power amps of the older K200 amps, if you use modern transistors to replace the original drivers and outputs some of the power amps will start to oscillate in the ultrasonic frequency range due to the higher frequency response of the modern transistors.

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Re: Hustler transistor help Q8 - Q9 ??? [message #18923 is a reply to message #18911]

Fri, 28 June 2013 06:57

stevem
Messages: 4733
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

Bill. thanks for the correction on the NTE131 vs 130 thing.

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Re: Hustler transistor help Q8 - Q9 ??? [message #18926 is a reply to message #18911]

Fri, 28 June 2013 15:06

chicagobill
Messages: 2005
Registered: April 2003

Senior Member

On the FX board PC5068 there are 3-LM3080 chips and 3-5558 dual op amps. Two of the 3080s are in the vibrato section and one is in the tremolo.

Two of the 5558 chips are part of the signal path/reverb and one is used as the low frequency generator for the vib/trem.

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Re: Hustler transistor help Q8 - Q9 ??? [message #18931 is a reply to message #18922]

Sat, 29 June 2013 13:52

dallek1
Messages: 10
Registered: May 2013
Location: new york

Junior Member

hi this has me worried , the sl14228 according to what i read was replaced my several chips, i did not find any info on compensation caps? can you please point out which caps? are they on the signal (C13-C14 / C21-C22) or on the power (C15, C20)? please this would be very helpful. i find no datasheet on the sl14228, but the rc4739 does not even use legs 2,3,4 - 10.11.12 ? these are for caps (C13-C14 / C21-C22). so i can ignore these caps right?

[Updated on: Sat, 29 June 2013 14:09]

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Re: Hustler transistor help Q8 - Q9 ??? [message #18933 is a reply to message #18911]

Sat, 29 June 2013 20:12

chicagobill
Messages: 2005
Registered: April 2003

Senior Member

No need to worry.

I don't remember which caps and I don't have the schematic handy, but they are the small ceramic caps that are right next to the chip.

The original sl14228 was a house numbered uA739 chip. Try searching 739 chip, you should find a data sheet.

Yes, I think I mentioned that the 4739 chips do not need external compensation caps, so you can ignore them if you've used the new chip.

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Re: Hustler transistor help Q8 - Q9 ??? [message #18934 is a reply to message #18933]

Sat, 29 June 2013 20:47

dallek1
Messages: 10
Registered: May 2013
Location: new york

Junior Member

thats what i said (C13-C14 / C21-C22) these are the ceramic on either side and they are not used by the chip, ok good progress

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Re: Hustler transistor help Q8 - Q9 ??? [message #18935 is a reply to message #18934]

Sat, 29 June 2013 22:13

pleat
Messages: 1452
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi

Senior Member

Not sure if everyone knows that the schematics are on this website again under the Technical tab. Saves me a lot of time to keep track of what you guys are talking about.
pleat

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Re: Hustler transistor help Q8 - Q9 ??? [message #18936 is a reply to message #18911]

Sun, 30 June 2013 02:58

chicagobill
Messages: 2005
Registered: April 2003

Senior Member

Yes Pleat, thanks for reminding me. The new schematic section is a tremendous help.

Yes the compensation caps are C13/C14 and C21/C22. They can be removed if the new chip is a 4739 instead of the original 739.

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Re: Hustler transistor help Q8 - Q9 ??? [message #18939 is a reply to message #18936]

Mon, 01 July 2013 20:16

dallek1
Messages: 10
Registered: May 2013
Location: new york

Junior Member

yes nbut it is also just the same to leave them also they aren't being used right

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Re: Hustler transistor help Q8 - Q9 ??? [message #18940 is a reply to message #18911]

Tue, 02 July 2013 06:24

stevem
Messages: 4733
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

I forgot to mention one important mod/improvment to make on the 5033 board while you are there.
The mod is to replace the two 5 watt emitter resistors with new ones that you stand up above the height of the two driver transistor heat sinks by passing the leads thru some 1/8" ID brass or aluminum tubing.
These two resistors dump alot of un-needed heat into both of those drivers!

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