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Club Kasino [message #20023] Mon, 20 January 2014 15:23 Go to next message
Mic Ferad is currently offline  Mic Ferad
Messages: 7
Registered: January 2014
Location: NJ
Junior Member
I'm new to the forum.
Got a Club Kasino from my brother. The tremlo doesn't work. The green wire in the reverb pan was off, so I soldered it back on. You can barely hear reverb on 10. Wondering if anyone has suggestions on where to start. I'm not afraid to pull out the scalpel so bring it on.

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Re: Club Kasino [message #20024 is a reply to message #20023] Tue, 21 January 2014 06:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stevem is currently offline  stevem
Messages: 4733
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY
Senior Member
Hello.
The club is a PA head without tremolo, so I do not understand that part of your question, at least that is the info I get from this site`s tech /schematic section.
In regards to your reverb problem it is likly that since you had a wire snap off, that also on of the coils at each end are open.
To check this open your doctors bag, pull out your ohm meter and hook it across each Female RCA jack in the pan.
The reading you should get if they are not open will be about 179 to aorund 200 ohms.
If eitheir end is open its time for a new pan

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Re: Club Kasino [message #20025 is a reply to message #20024] Tue, 21 January 2014 06:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pleat is currently offline  pleat
Messages: 1452
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi
Senior Member
Kasino did make a 4x10 Club guitar amp in the 1974 era. Blue front control panel. Much like the II L Kustom 60 watt 2x12 guitar amp.
pleat

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Re: Club Kasino [message #20026 is a reply to message #20023] Tue, 21 January 2014 07:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stevem is currently offline  stevem
Messages: 4733
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY
Senior Member
Thanks Pleat!
Well if thats the case I will hopefully assume right that the amp uses a PC303 board.
In these amps a foot switch is only needed to turn a effect off, so maybe someone got inside and jumped out the section of the foot switch for the tremolo.
Even when these amps have tremolo circuit problem, if the switch jack has not been messed with, you will still hear some very small amount of tremolo effect if the intensity is cranked!
In regards to the reverb, if you find your pan is shot, Antique electronics has replacements in the Mod line of pans.
You need a type 4F with a input impeadance of 1475 and a output impeadance 2250.
They may offer a choise of two different ones, one with a long decay and one with a medium, I find that unless I will every play surf music, that the medium sutes me best for guitar.

[Updated on: Tue, 21 January 2014 07:44]

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Re: Club Kasino [message #20027 is a reply to message #20023] Tue, 21 January 2014 17:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
chicagobill
Messages: 2005
Registered: April 2003
Senior Member
Perhaps the OP could tell us what the PC board number is.

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Re: Club Kasino [message #20028 is a reply to message #20027] Tue, 21 January 2014 18:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pleat is currently offline  pleat
Messages: 1452
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi
Senior Member
It is basically the same as the Kustom Lead II amp. Kasino Club guitar amp 100 watts peak power, drive control two channel, and would have the blue control panel and grill cloth. 1974 or newer.
pleat

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Re: Club Kasino [message #20029 is a reply to message #20023] Tue, 21 January 2014 20:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mic Ferad is currently offline  Mic Ferad
Messages: 7
Registered: January 2014
Location: NJ
Junior Member
Well thank you folks for pointing the way. Just got done with a 5 hour snow commute so opening the amp up is not happening tonight. However, I am very interested in getting this thing back to it's former glory. I can tell you it is a 4x10 arrangement and has the blue panel. The model is a Club L , 200-0303-00, if that helps. Thank you again and I'll post you again with an update.

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Re: Club Kasino [message #20030 is a reply to message #20023] Wed, 22 January 2014 14:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stevem is currently offline  stevem
Messages: 4733
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY
Senior Member
Well without the true PC board numbers from the amp, then my posting on the needed reverb pan should be concidered just a guess for now.

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Re: Club Kasino [message #20031 is a reply to message #20023] Wed, 22 January 2014 19:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mic Ferad is currently offline  Mic Ferad
Messages: 7
Registered: January 2014
Location: NJ
Junior Member
Got it open. The clean board is a PC 5128 Rev 1 and the board in question is a PC 5129 Rev 3. I'll check the pan in a moment.

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Re: Club Kasino [message #20032 is a reply to message #20023] Wed, 22 January 2014 19:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mic Ferad is currently offline  Mic Ferad
Messages: 7
Registered: January 2014
Location: NJ
Junior Member
I think the pan is shot. I'm not reading anything on the RCA jacks. It appears to be untouched inside. Thank you for your help.

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Re: Club Kasino [message #20033 is a reply to message #20023] Wed, 22 January 2014 19:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mic Ferad is currently offline  Mic Ferad
Messages: 7
Registered: January 2014
Location: NJ
Junior Member
I just have to make this comment. I have a '73 Pro Reverb. Fender should have been raiding the Kasino factory back then. The lead dressing inside this thing is awe inspiring. My Fender looks like it was wired by Jack Daniels.

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Re: Club Kasino [message #20039 is a reply to message #20023] Thu, 23 January 2014 06:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stevem is currently offline  stevem
Messages: 4733
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY
Senior Member
In regards to the 5129 pc schematic, our site does not list it in the tech section and I myself do not have one.
Maybe Pleat or Bill on this site do however and we can then pin down what you need in regards to a replacment reverb pan?

Once Fender got bought out by CBS and got into the penney pinching silverface era of amps the wiring layout when to hell and they had to place many small value tone sucking caps to tame the oscilation problems that some of these amps had due to this relaxed QC level.
In those days you could get one given Fender amp from a production run and it would be fine and need the tone sucking caps,while the very next one had a issue!
This is not to mention that they also switched over to the brown epoxy coulping caps that test quite poor for ESR, which this in and of itself could make any circuit oscilate.
Why they chose in 76 to stay with these poor sounding caps, yet blow the bucks on going to UL type output transforms in even the guitar amps is a question that I would love to hear the story about the thought process that led to it!!

Just to offer up a example of the lack of QC, I have what must be many 1976 pro reverb amps ( 2 output tubes) that was made with a output transformer for a ( 4 output tube)twin reverb amp!
I pickedup this amp from the original owner who was never really fully happy with the amp, no wonder as it only put out 35 watts of RMS power when it sould have had 68.
Fender`s rating of these amps being 75 RMS is not true.

Here`s a classic example of how to mis- manage a company, CBS buys fender for 13 mill and then ends up having to sell it off due to poor sales for 1 mill less than the purchase price, at a time when the other top amp manufactures products where selling well!

[Updated on: Thu, 23 January 2014 07:19]

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Re: Club Kasino [message #20040 is a reply to message #20039] Thu, 23 January 2014 13:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
chicagobill
Messages: 2005
Registered: April 2003
Senior Member
I found the schematic at the Music Electronics Forum site. In the Schematic Requests section, there is a Kustom section with a number of schematics for the later model boards.

The first thing that I always check is the reverb tank wires that connect the transducer coils to the RCA jacks inside the pan. These are very thin wires and break all of the time. They can break in an obvious way or they can break at the end where they connect to the coil. In any case, inspect them carefully and see if they are still solidly connected.

As Steve posted earlier, this is a high impedance tank and there should be approximately 50-200 ohms across the input coil and 200 ohms across the output coil. The RCA input jack shield must be isolated from the chassis.

The reverb/trem circuit uses elements from three different ICs. The input to the FX is driven by 1/2 of the 739 chip. The trem effect is created by the 80848 chip and the reverb tank is driven by 1/2 of the 5558 chip. The other half of the 5558 chip is used for the trem effect low frequency oscillator.

If the circuit is passing a clean signal and the reverb and trem do not work, the first thing that I would test would be the 5558 chip, as it is part of both FX circuits.

Do you have the ability to measure voltages while the amp is turned on and running?

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Re: Club Kasino [message #20041 is a reply to message #20023] Thu, 23 January 2014 20:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mic Ferad is currently offline  Mic Ferad
Messages: 7
Registered: January 2014
Location: NJ
Junior Member
Thank you both Steve and Bill. I'm not reading anything on the output of the pan itself, so I think the pan is shot. Minor concern for the moment as once I find one with the right specs, its plug n play. The "can I test it while its on", is the part that concerns me. What should I be checking when its on that can't be checked while its off? Not scared, just want to make an assessment of my skill set. I sould clarify the scalple statement with the addendum of - when its off. Thank you again for the help guys. Love the history too.

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Re: Club Kasino [message #20042 is a reply to message #20023] Thu, 23 January 2014 21:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mic Ferad is currently offline  Mic Ferad
Messages: 7
Registered: January 2014
Location: NJ
Junior Member
Three interesting things.
1. I think the pan is good. 25 at the input 175 at the output.
2. The gray rubber circles on top of the 2 large caps, have dimples. Are they shot?
3. There is an odd looking terminal with a 10 watt resistor attached. It looks rusty. Wondering if that being rusty means that's shot too.
Maybe I was just tired last night or my skill set concerns are valid.

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Re: Club Kasino [message #20045 is a reply to message #20023] Thu, 23 January 2014 22:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
chicagobill
Messages: 2005
Registered: April 2003
Senior Member
The pan readings sound correct. Is the amp humming? If not then, leave the caps alone.

What is rusted on the resistor?

What you need to do with the amp turned on, is to measure dc voltages in the amp circuits. If you don't feel comfortable doing that then you could just try replacing the 5558 chip. It may or may not cure the problem.

If you want to try and measure the voltages, just be certain to stay away from the ac circuits. The dc voltages are low enough that you won't hurt yourself, but you can do damage to the amp if you are not carfeful.

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Re: Club Kasino [message #20046 is a reply to message #20023] Fri, 24 January 2014 06:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stevem is currently offline  stevem
Messages: 4733
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY
Senior Member
One simple way to test if both the output side of the reverb pan is working and the output side amp called the recovery side is to bounch the amp and or tap on the pan hard, with the reverb control turned up you should hear the sound of the springs clashing.

Bill, what opamp is on the recovery side of the circuit?

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Re: Club Kasino [message #20049 is a reply to message #20023] Fri, 24 January 2014 11:43 Go to previous message
chicagobill
Messages: 2005
Registered: April 2003
Senior Member
There is no opamp in the return circuit, there is just a single transistor stage.

Steve PM your email to me and I'll send the schematic to you.

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