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AWESOME Kustom bass rig [message #22821] Sat, 02 May 2015 02:29 Go to next message
Iowa Boy is currently offline  Iowa Boy
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Finally got my second K-250 today. $70 and only needs two replacement knobs and both of the lights in the switches. With the two 2-15's cabinets and my two amps now I can blow the windows out if I want to.

My question, and know we have talked about in the past, to connect the two amps together using a Y adapter and connecting to both amps. I never noticed it until today but the K-250 heads have monitor out jack which I assume was used to plug into a second cabinet that had the built in amp or was it intended for a recording device? Couldn't I just run a cord from this jack to the input of the other amp? Guessing with two amps running off of one signal that I would have to use the volume control on the bass to control the volume of both amps providing of course that the volume is set at the same level on both amps.

[Updated on: Sat, 02 May 2015 02:38]

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Re: AWESOME Kustom bass rig [message #22822 is a reply to message #22821] Sat, 02 May 2015 03:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
riverboat is currently offline  riverboat
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When I run two amps I usually use my tuner pedal which has two outputs. Sometimes I will use a stereo reverb pedal, or occasionally a chorus pedal or a digital delay. Each amp runs it's own speaker so, yes your bass volume is the master volume but I run that all the way up and set the amps where they sound best. If you are outside, angle the speakers slightly apart to cover the whole audience. For bass, two amps always sound better than one, but beware,the bartender or the club owner might decide that you look too loud.

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Re: AWESOME Kustom bass rig [message #22826 is a reply to message #22822] Sat, 02 May 2015 22:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kustom_Bart is currently offline  Kustom_Bart
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Could always get a K400 head and run four 3 x 15 cabs.....you could run them at a stadium without micing them...lol! Pleat will tell you the best Kustom bass cab ever heard was one that someone in the group made a new baffle board for and I believe it had 2 x 10 on the top and a single 15 and really for any place you would ever play (indoor venue) you will never need anything more than that for a bass. I believe he ran a k200b-1 or K-250-1 head. Pleat would remember for sure. However with two of them you can run stereo with one on each side of the stage. Smile

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Re: AWESOME Kustom bass rig [message #22827 is a reply to message #22826] Sat, 02 May 2015 22:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pinkjimiphoton is currently offline  pinkjimiphoton
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you can use the "monitor" output as a line out... i used to use a half blown k100 amp as a preamp using the monitor out. made a great overdriver til it blew up the rest of the way.Wink

[Updated on: Sat, 02 May 2015 23:15]

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Re: AWESOME Kustom bass rig [message #22847 is a reply to message #22827] Mon, 04 May 2015 10:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Iowa Boy is currently offline  Iowa Boy
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Hey Bart, I have four of the 3-15 cabinets and a 400 but with the two 250's I'm getting 250 watts RMS and the 400 would only get 200. Also the 3-15's would be 5.33 ohms, you could only use 2 of those cabinets on the 400 and you would be loosing addition power since you were not at the 4 ohm load. That is why I opted for the two 250's instead........maximum rms at 4 ohms. The 4 cabinets I'm sure looked awesome but he would have been running the amp hot and loosing a lot of power as well......unless of course he was running two 400's. I also like the sound quality better on the 250's over the 400.

Also, I have to move my equipment myself, no roadie's........those damned 3-15's are heavy. Two's bad enough, but four is a killer!

[Updated on: Mon, 04 May 2015 10:24]

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Re: AWESOME Kustom bass rig [message #22851 is a reply to message #22847] Mon, 04 May 2015 14:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pinkjimiphoton is currently offline  pinkjimiphoton
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5.3 is close enough to 4 OR 8, really i'd imagine. a speaker is only at it's stated impedance with a 1k sine wave running thru it anyways, right? it's not as absolute as peeps normally think... a speaker's impedance can even become a conductance at some points if ya hook a digital meter to the back of a speaker and watch it a while... it's all over the place, with different dc resistances at different frequencies.

i would think if bud ross thought it was that concerning, he would have opted for loading his cabinets with speakers to reflect a more exact load. i'm new with solid state so may be on acid, but an ohm and 1/3rd difference isn't much of a difference, about the equivalent of adding a couple inches of wire between the speaker and the amp. with the usual 20 % tolerance, or even a more precise 10 or even 1% tolerance, 5.3 is close enough to 4 for rocknroll.

that's part of the reason speakers read off their ratings when checking their dc resistance. two 5.3r cabs would work out to almost 3 ohms, which is close enough to 4 ohms to probably make little difference, at least in practice if not in theory.

i always had assumed the 3x12'a and 3x15's were wired with two 16 ohm speakers in parallel, and one 8 ohm in parallel with that for a 4 ohm load (or series to take it back to 16)... never really looked at one. seems curious that it would be done in straight parallel if an exact load was required. at least to me. Wink

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Re: AWESOME Kustom bass rig [message #22852 is a reply to message #22851] Mon, 04 May 2015 16:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
chicagobill
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pinkjimiphoton wrote on Mon, 04 May 2015 13:17
i always had assumed the 3x12'a and 3x15's were wired with two 16 ohm speakers in parallel, and one 8 ohm in parallel with that for a 4 ohm load (or series to take it back to 16)... never really looked at one. seems curious that it would be done in straight parallel if an exact load was required. at least to me. Wink

The problem with that is the 8 ohm speaker will take twice the power that each of the 16 ohm speakers will.

So half of the amps' power output will go to the one 8 ohm speaker and half will be divided between the two 16 ohms speakers.

Other than that, you are correct in that the small differences in ohms will not make that much of a difference in power output.

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Re: AWESOME Kustom bass rig [message #22854 is a reply to message #22821] Mon, 04 May 2015 16:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Iowa Boy is currently offline  Iowa Boy
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Well the way I see it since the Kustoms were designed to use 4 ohm loads and since all the cabinets back then were 4, 5.3, 8, or 16 ohms depending on the speaker configuration, I'd rather be safe than sorry. I'm still getting maximum rms power at the designed ohm load. And I really don't need two more 15's at head level blasting in my ears anyway. Guess if Kustom did make a bass cabinet using 4 speakers and the parallel/series wiring and all speakers at 16 ohms, you could then use 4 cabinets with a 400 head......guess they did do that with the newer tuck and roll cabinets I think. Anyway, I'm happy and 250 watts rms is plenty of power to play anywhere I can imagine and in my book two cabinets with the two amps looks and sounds pretty cool. Won't get that look from todays suitcase amps.

[Updated on: Mon, 04 May 2015 17:17]

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Re: AWESOME Kustom bass rig [message #22857 is a reply to message #22852] Mon, 04 May 2015 17:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pinkjimiphoton is currently offline  pinkjimiphoton
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chicagobill wrote on Mon, 04 May 2015 16:26
pinkjimiphoton wrote on Mon, 04 May 2015 13:17
i always had assumed the 3x12'a and 3x15's were wired with two 16 ohm speakers in parallel, and one 8 ohm in parallel with that for a 4 ohm load (or series to take it back to 16)... never really looked at one. seems curious that it would be done in straight parallel if an exact load was required. at least to me. Wink

The problem with that is the 8 ohm speaker will take twice the power that each of the 16 ohm speakers will.

So half of the amps' power output will go to the one 8 ohm speaker and half will be divided between the two 16 ohms speakers.

Other than that, you are correct in that the small differences in ohms will not make that much of a difference in power output.


thanks bill, did not know that about the voltage division, but i suspect it explains why sometimes projects using the same value but different voltage caps often seem to fail... i figured the bigger cap seems to win, maybe this explains it.

i had only thought about the impedance, not the load each speaker ends up seeing. awesome. i'm probably wrong about the caps, but i have noticed a lot of failures in pedals with mismatched voltage rating on caps.

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Re: AWESOME Kustom bass rig [message #22858 is a reply to message #22854] Mon, 04 May 2015 17:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pleat is currently offline  pleat
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Kustom_Bart was thinking of a 2x15 cab that was converted to a single 12" and single 18" cabinet. We used it with a K200 head and mic'd the kick drum at our 2012 convention in Chanute. It did a great job.
pleat

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Re: AWESOME Kustom bass rig [message #22862 is a reply to message #22858] Mon, 04 May 2015 18:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Iowa Boy is currently offline  Iowa Boy
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I'll bet that 18 really boomed. Makes me wonder how two 18's in a 15's cabinet would sound? Or would the cabinet not have enough air to make it work properly?

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Re: AWESOME Kustom bass rig [message #22868 is a reply to message #22821] Tue, 05 May 2015 00:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kustom_Bart is currently offline  Kustom_Bart
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Pleat is correct, that is the best sounding Kustom bass cab I have ever heard, hands down! single 12" with a single 18" that thing was the BOMB!

With the K400 and four 3 x 15 cabs you also have to consider how much more air you are moving with all of the additional speakers as well. pinkjimiphoton is correct that is close enough to 4 ohms that you could never audibly know the difference. I am not a big metal face collector I have a K150 head and a mint challenger and that is it for me the rest is all plexi stuff. I know the K250's are loud and are even louder with the expansion cabs with the built in power amp as you can daisy chain them together forever...lol!

Also have a couple of vintage Tube amps one is a one of a kind MONSTER that will absolutely kill you if you max it out. Built by Bob Rissi who was the head engineer at Fender with Leo and head engineer at Rickenbacher and designed and built the transonic and still owns the one he built for Jimmy Page for Zeppelins first American Tour. It is a Solid state amp. I like all kinds of old amps, Pleat loves old Fenders....lol! That is another story in itself.

I do use two 2 x 15" + siren horn cabs loaded with altec 418's for my PA system and put them on top of single 18" peavey subs, I feel your pain, I am old with a bad back, it takes two to lift them now days. I haven't had my PA out in a year or two now...lol!

[Updated on: Tue, 05 May 2015 00:15]

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Re: AWESOME Kustom bass rig [message #22874 is a reply to message #22821] Tue, 05 May 2015 10:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Iowa Boy is currently offline  Iowa Boy
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I guess maybe I'm confused. I thought anything below 4 ohms would cause the amp to overheat. If you have two 3-15's your load per amp is 2.6 something. Isn't that too low to be safely running a Kustom head? I thought the K-400's could only use four 8 ohm cabinets.

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Re: AWESOME Kustom bass rig [message #22882 is a reply to message #22874] Wed, 06 May 2015 20:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kustom_Bart is currently offline  Kustom_Bart
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It is actually two K200 heads in one box and you run 2 cabs from one side and 2 cabs from the other side, but you have to either A-B-Y box your input or use a Y cable. That is how you get away with four 3 x 15 cabs with it and then they run wide open too. Twelve 15: Altec 421's or JBL D-140's and that is a ton of quality air moving fo sho! Smile 2.66 ohms is close enough to 4 ohms too and it will handle it.

[Updated on: Wed, 06 May 2015 20:43]

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Re: AWESOME Kustom bass rig [message #22883 is a reply to message #22821] Wed, 06 May 2015 21:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Iowa Boy is currently offline  Iowa Boy
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Learned something new. Thanks Bart........so you saying you'll help with moving those four cabinets then? Smile

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Re: AWESOME Kustom bass rig [message #22884 is a reply to message #22821] Wed, 06 May 2015 22:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Iowa Boy is currently offline  Iowa Boy
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Well Bart now I am thinking. I have the K-400b amp. So if I plug into only one input then the sound only comes out of two of the speakers. I have to Y into another jack on the other amp side to get all four speakers to work? So does that also apply to the 400 PA amp head as well?

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Re: AWESOME Kustom bass rig [message #22885 is a reply to message #22884] Thu, 07 May 2015 01:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kustom_Bart is currently offline  Kustom_Bart
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I am not sure on your head mine is a K400B-1 and has a knob on the front that you can turn to run it mono or stereo, turning one or both heads on. I am not sure on the D model, I know it still has two K200's in it, but not sure how they work as I haven't played with one. My back is toast, I can't and don't even lift the K400 head that I have...lol! I have a modern PA rack set-up with a Drive rack and an allen and heath board and all of the toys and run it through the Kustoms on stereo. All on wheels with ramps for the trailer.. easy peasy for my destroyed back. When you have cabs with Altecs or worse yet JBL's you don't lift them by yourself for sure.

[Updated on: Thu, 07 May 2015 01:22]

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Re: AWESOME Kustom bass rig [message #22886 is a reply to message #22885] Thu, 07 May 2015 07:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pleat is currently offline  pleat
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In a perfect world, the math on a 3x15 cab is 5.33 ohms, driving two 3x15 cabinets with a K200 amp you have 2.66 ohms. Since speakers are not precision or exact at 5.33 ohms for a 3x15 cabinet. I'd think a speaker cabinet could drift either higher or lower in impedance. Kustom K200 power amps want a 4 ohm total, again that number is in a perfect world.

The K400B series amps use two K200B power amps housed in one chassis and have two speaker outputs at each end of the chassis. The K400B-1 through K400B-4 amps have a stereo mono switch on the front panel. The switch set in mono places any signal from any channel into both power amps and speakers.

In stereo, the signal from the left channels go only to the left side power amp and speakers. Any signal in the right channel goes only to the right side power amp and speakers. The switch does not turn off and on the amplifiers.

When in doubt go the Kustom catalogs. The only K400B series amp sold with 4 3x15 cabinets is the K400B-5 PA amp with the 3x15 siren horn cabinets. The guitar and bass 3x15 cabinets, you will only see two cabinets sold with a K400B head.

pleat

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Re: AWESOME Kustom bass rig [message #22887 is a reply to message #22821] Thu, 07 May 2015 11:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Iowa Boy is currently offline  Iowa Boy
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Well my head is the B-5 and there is no stereo switch on it so guess its okay to use the four cabinets on it but since I use it for PA and my cabinets are wired to run 5.33 ohms or 8 think I'll continue to use the 2-15's and the two 250's for bass. My backs not what it used to be either. I prefer the "perfect" world over flying by the seat of your pants world. Smile

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Re: AWESOME Kustom bass rig [message #22888 is a reply to message #22821] Thu, 07 May 2015 14:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pinkjimiphoton is currently offline  pinkjimiphoton
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but... all ... that ... POWER

MAN i'd love to run my guitar thru a rig like that just once. i salute you guys!! Wink

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Re: AWESOME Kustom bass rig [message #22889 is a reply to message #22821] Thu, 07 May 2015 15:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Iowa Boy is currently offline  Iowa Boy
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What did you say?????? There's still that ringing in my ears.....lol

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Re: AWESOME Kustom bass rig [message #22890 is a reply to message #22889] Thu, 07 May 2015 16:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pinkjimiphoton is currently offline  pinkjimiphoton
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Iowa Boy wrote on Thu, 07 May 2015 15:21
What did you say?????? There's still that ringing in my ears.....lol



shouldn't that be WATT? Wink

i hooked up my 50, 150 and 200 all at once today. Cool

so much for hearing stuff at the gig tonite. Wink

i think my neighbors love me now, there's a whole bunch of cop cars outside and some nice man is speaking to me via a megaphone,
but i can't really hear him. i guess him and his friends must like it, too <g>

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Re: AWESOME Kustom bass rig [message #22892 is a reply to message #22821] Thu, 07 May 2015 17:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Iowa Boy is currently offline  Iowa Boy
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Sure glad your not my neighbor, hate to have a pissing contest to see who can make the most noise. lol Also have a feeling your into that head banging noise. Smile

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Re: AWESOME Kustom bass rig [message #22893 is a reply to message #22821] Thu, 07 May 2015 18:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pinkjimiphoton is currently offline  pinkjimiphoton
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no headbangin metaloid shredder here, hoss... strictly psychedelic heavy blues generally Wink

sheeet, i rarely crank anything over maybe 9:00 these days, and the heavy artillery lives in my basement. Wink
my gear stuff lives on the truck most of the time.

i'm an old guy now lol

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Re: AWESOME Kustom bass rig [message #22894 is a reply to message #22893] Thu, 07 May 2015 18:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Iowa Boy is currently offline  Iowa Boy
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Glad to hear you play "music" and not noise. Me strictly late 60's to mid 70's and some 80's wi just a touch of country from 10 years ago when it was more rock than twang.

Last year I hit the big 60 for me and the hair I can't wear to my shoulders...even if I could grow it now, is on my chin. lol

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Re: AWESOME Kustom bass rig [message #22895 is a reply to message #22894] Thu, 07 May 2015 18:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pinkjimiphoton is currently offline  pinkjimiphoton
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i may have giant freekin hair still to go with my long ass beard, lol... never cared for that metal sludge... well, REAL metal...

uriah heep, purple... no wonger or metal licca shirts on this kid.

started playing in 69 when i was seven. have played everything from classical music to jazz, rock to blues, funk to country punk to fusion. currently lead a couple classic rock bands. most of my set list is pre dark side of the moon.

lotta blues, i've been known to pick and grin a little too, but i pretty much gave up on the south when ronnie van zandt went down.

tonite will be the usual, floyd, sam and dave, spencer davis, bb king, stuff like that. gotta guest bassist which always proves interesting. Wink

keep on rockin bud. i remember when rock still rolled, and lyrics were something with melodys for 'em instead of chanted off kilter prose by guys making entirely too much money for making noise.

peace out. Wink

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Re: AWESOME Kustom bass rig [message #22896 is a reply to message #22821] Thu, 07 May 2015 18:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Iowa Boy is currently offline  Iowa Boy
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Rock the house tonight.......sounds like a good time. Later dude

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Re: AWESOME Kustom bass rig [message #22897 is a reply to message #22821] Thu, 07 May 2015 19:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sunnhead is currently offline  sunnhead
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The best way to get a great chain of sound is with the 250 series with the extra power module in the cabinets to make the 500 series. I have a 400 B-1 that has 2 3x15 D140 loaded cabinets. It is pretty sweet. For guitar I have a B-4 With two 3x15 cabinets with the siren horns in them. Massive sound. I use a 250 2x15 with a powered 2x15 Altec set up.. far out bass sound. I also use the 250-4 with a 4x12 and a powered 4x12 for a great amount of volume. Soon Ill have a great Keyboard set-up with a 250-1 + 2x15 + Altec Horn cab with the extra cabinet with a power module. IMHO that is the best way to go.

-S

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Re: AWESOME Kustom bass rig [message #22898 is a reply to message #22821] Thu, 07 May 2015 19:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Iowa Boy is currently offline  Iowa Boy
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You do have a sweet set-up. I've never came across one of the built in amp cabinets yet. I do have a stereo 400 guitar head with all the effects that needs repair and already have one 2-15 with horn cabinet for it and looking for another. The KEI speakers blew so need to get them re-built as well. Once this unit is together, I will have it recovered in the red sparkle.

My 250's set up is unfortunately in black....yeck.....and will recover everything in silver sparkle.

My PA with the 400, 300 and 200 heads with four 3-15's cabinets (two with sirens), two separate Altec horn cabinets, and two 4-8's cabinets will all be recovered in charcoal sparkle.

I would like to find a K-250 guitar head with all the effects and a K-600 PA head if they ever surface again.

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Re: AWESOME Kustom bass rig [message #22905 is a reply to message #22898] Fri, 08 May 2015 13:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pinkjimiphoton is currently offline  pinkjimiphoton
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Iowa Boy wrote on Thu, 07 May 2015 19:41
You do have a sweet set-up. I've never came across one of the built in amp cabinets yet. I do have a stereo 400 guitar head with all the effects that needs repair and already have one 2-15 with horn cabinet for it and looking for another. The KEI speakers blew so need to get them re-built as well. Once this unit is together, I will have it recovered in the red sparkle.

My 250's set up is unfortunately in black....yeck.....and will recover everything in silver sparkle.

My PA with the 400, 300 and 200 heads with four 3-15's cabinets (two with sirens), two separate Altec horn cabinets, and two 4-8's cabinets will all be recovered in charcoal sparkle.

I would like to find a K-250 guitar head with all the effects and a K-600 PA head if they ever surface again.


i had a gold sparkle k250 hear in gold sparkle with all the effects that got lost to the sands of time a couple years ago around here
when the owner of a repair shop died. i'd sent it in for a cap job out of state and never saw i again. massachussettes seems to be full of old kustoms.
if you check craig's list for western mass, boston, and eastern connecticut and hartford county you may find one.
)
are you going to do the recovering yourself? wanna do one of mine ? <just joking> Cool i really like the silver sparkle, but the charcoal gets so sweet when it begins to yellow.. looks like gold flecks. beautiful Wink

they turn up quite a bit in this area, if i see one affordable in good shape i'll post it.

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Re: AWESOME Kustom bass rig [message #22906 is a reply to message #22821] Fri, 08 May 2015 15:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Iowa Boy is currently offline  Iowa Boy
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I refer to the yellowed silver as cat pee yellow. Always laugh when I see a rare golden amp posted. My charcoal set is now sea weed green.....not very attractive to say the least. I found a guy here that will do the coverings for me but he wants $150 just to do a head so I will have to do the change out over a period of time unless I get lucky and win the lottery or learn how to sew.

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Re: AWESOME Kustom bass rig [message #22909 is a reply to message #22906] Mon, 11 May 2015 13:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kustom_Bart is currently offline  Kustom_Bart
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I knew my ol buddy Don (Pleat) would be able to set me straight if I was off on anything. My mind is AFU from a bad car accident 6 years ago and a traumatic brain injury. However Pleat, he has a mind like a steel trap, we worked together in the late 80's and he can remember everything from then and I can recall some of it, but he will bring up something and I go...wow how did you remember that, I forgot all about that, but that sure was funny. We had fun at work with practical jokes....like how to confuse the air to make a die grinder run backwards.....LOL!

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Re: AWESOME Kustom bass rig [message #22910 is a reply to message #22821] Mon, 11 May 2015 15:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Iowa Boy is currently offline  Iowa Boy
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Decided to keep the 3-15's blue bass cabinet since the covering is in such good shape and I do have a 200 head that has the reverb and tremolo on one side (don't work) and the bass set up on the other side. Have decided to repair the amp and get another 200-5 head in blue and switch out the cabinets. Should make a nice rig for either guitar or bass for someone. If anyone has an interest in this let me know. The shoe polish on the speakers was a good idea.......they look like new now. Buffing was a pain in the butt...lol.

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Re: AWESOME Kustom bass rig [message #22918 is a reply to message #22910] Tue, 12 May 2015 23:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kustom_Bart is currently offline  Kustom_Bart
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You mean you didn't spit shine them??? Smile LOL! I have used kust a small fog of armour all on a towel to make them nice again too.

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Re: AWESOME Kustom bass rig [message #22921 is a reply to message #22821] Wed, 13 May 2015 09:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Iowa Boy is currently offline  Iowa Boy
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Thought about that as well, but wasn't sure how it might affect the paper cone. Black polish did the trick though.

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Re: AWESOME Kustom bass rig [message #22924 is a reply to message #22821] Sat, 16 May 2015 01:28 Go to previous message
Kustom_Bart is currently offline  Kustom_Bart
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You put the armour all on the rag and do not soak the cone, it soaks in and drys without worrying about wax build up like shoe polish. I have JBL's Altec's CTS and Jensen's that I did years ago and they are black and not collecting dust in any way. Just put it on the rag do not soak the cone. Most old cones are so dry that it will soak it in anyhow, being 50 years old. Never had any issue with it, try it out, you may find it works very well. It also cleans them as I have used it on cones with stains on them and it takes it off and blends them back to black...hey isn't that a song.....lol! Smile

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