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K250 15" cab? [message #3791] Mon, 01 March 2004 22:21 willy Messages: 9 Registered: February 2004 Junior Member Hi All, New to message board. It's great. I'm still hackin' around at 55. Son picked up a Kustom 250 head and cab in fair/good condition. Looks like a bass head 'cause there is no fancy stuff on it. It works. This is probably the original as purchased (head with cab). The rig isn't here with me right now but does anybody know if the 250 came stock with a 2X15" cab? Could it have been a 2X12" cab? Hope it is a 2X15" 'cause I'd like to put 2 15" Eminence Kappa pros-15A's in it. I really don't care about a couple hundred bucks if I can improve one of these originals. I can use a soldering iron but beyond that not much more. I'm assuming it is simply a matter of soldering new connections where the old were removed. Any tricks to look out for? So...would a 250 bass rig have come with 2X12"s? And....any tips for replacing the original speakers? Thanks & Regards Willy 2 Shoes Report message to a moderator

Re: K250 15" cab? [message #3792 is a reply to message #3791] Tue, 02 March 2004 07:55   stevem Messages: 4736 Registered: June 2004 Location: NY Senior Member Hi.kustom never made a 2-12 cab for the 250s. The 250 type cab would stand vericle with the wheels on the bottom( some early cabs where horizontal)A true 250 cab would have no taper from bottom to top when viewed from the side.The jack mounting plate will tell you what type of speakers it has in it, or at least what came in it originaly. If you look thru the grill cloth and in the center of each speaker see a shinny aluminum type half dome, then you may have got lucky as I did on two purchases and got a cab with altec lansing or j b lansing speakers, in which case they will be hard to top with new ones. If you can reach into one of the port tubes to the back of one of the speakers the magnet should be about a 8" square thing, telling you that they are CTS brand speakers. A new set of eminence speakers in that case will blow your socks off.the speaker connections on the CTS speakers use a slip on spade type hook up, after market will most likey use a spring post, so no need to plug you iron in. If you care to you should slip the head out of the case and try to determin its year of production. There was a factory mod put in the 1972 heads that gave them better gain. It makes a great difference.P.S if you think you have altec or jb lansing speakers, you need to find out which you have JBLs would have a 4" dome cover, Altecs would be 3". If altecs open up the cab, their model 418 is not a bass driver and only handle 100 watts. The model 421 is a bass driver.The altecs are hard speakers to come by these days and trying to recone one if blown with a original replacement cone is near impossible. Use them wisely. Report message to a moderator

Re: K250 15" cab? [message #3793 is a reply to message #3792] Tue, 02 March 2004 10:11 willy Messages: 9 Registered: February 2004 Junior Member Anon, Thanks so much for your valuable info. It's so neat that one can visit a site like this and get "pro" information. Will check out the little beastie this weekend. If the cab has a taper when viewed from the side (it does not) then this would be a what? A 2X12? Thanks again, Anon. Willy 2 Shoes Report message to a moderator

Re: K250 15" cab? [message #3794 is a reply to message #3793] Tue, 02 March 2004 10:19 ET Messages: 146 Registered: October 2000 Location: Charlotte NC Senior Member Hi Willy...welcome to the site...and to the greatest bunch of guys (and Deb) in the world...just wanted to add a quick note..the Eminence Kappa series are wonderful drivers...but when I tried to load some in my 200 series 2x15 cabs, the mounting studs aren't long enough to get through the massive frame on the Kappas...I can't find any bolt extenders and since my grill clothe is in great shape I did'nt want to pull the clothe off the front (2 million staples) and tear it up just to get at the mounting studs so I could not load the Emi in the cab..a real shame cause they would sure handle the bass nicely...the later 250 series cab may have a longer stud set, but I doubt it cause the jbls, altecs, CTS, and jensons of the day have a thinner frame and didn't present that problem during the time when these kustoms were manufactured..anyway..doing some measuring before you spend the bucks on the speakers....n Play Loud! ET Report message to a moderator

Re: K250 15" cab? [message #3795 is a reply to message #3794] Tue, 02 March 2004 11:54 rodak Messages: 511 Registered: October 2001 Location: Georgia Senior Member Here's an idea that I had to do because of some rusted/frozen studs: Saw or cut the existing studs off (I used a Dremel tool and cutoff wheel - worked pretty well), and you should be able to back them out without messing with the grillcloth. Then get some T-nuts and matching screws of appropriate length. You can position the T-nuts by hand, pressing them in slightly, then use the screws to pull them all the way in. www.combo-organ.com www.combo-organ.com Report message to a moderator

Re: K250 15" cab? [message #3796 is a reply to message #3795] Tue, 02 March 2004 12:21 willy Messages: 9 Registered: February 2004 Junior Member Holy Mackerel! Am I glad I took the time to consult the pros! I would have ordered the Emi's and had a big grin on my face when they arrived only to find the mounting stud problem. I want this new (old) amp to be fun. Therefore, what alternative to the Emi Kappas is suggested that is a simple 'plug-right-in-and-play?' At 55 I'm not worrying about a couple hundred bucks. Life's too short and I'm on the downslope! Suggestions welcome 'cause I obviously need them. Willy Report message to a moderator

Re: K250 15" cab? [message #3798 is a reply to message #3796] Tue, 02 March 2004 12:55   pleat Messages: 1452 Registered: June 2004 Location: Belding, Mi Senior Member I wouldn't cut the original mounting bolts. If the bolts aren't long enough, You can purchase speaker mounting clips that a lot of cabinets makers use to front load the speaker. Sili Spares makes them and I know EV also made some. I would place the speaker in the cabinet and just use eight clips to secure the speaker. This way you can always return the cabinet to original. Don Report message to a moderator

Re: K250 15" cab? [message #3799 is a reply to message #3798] Tue, 02 March 2004 13:43 rodak Messages: 511 Registered: October 2001 Location: Georgia Senior Member Yeah, I guess it depends on how "stock" you want to keep it. In my case, I was sort of forced to cut the bolts. I used Eminence Delta 15's (stamped frame), and they fit just fine in the original bolts (well, the 6 that I didn't have to cut), so unless you need the extra beef in the Kappa's, you could consider Delta 15's. I've also heard (here, I think), that Carvin PS-15's work great in Kustom cabinets. I suspect they may be the same as the Eminence Delta's. Don't forget impedance, either. I remember one reason I ordered the Delta's is they were the only ones in my price range that came in 16ohm. Of course, it depends on how you plan to drive it. I don't have serious speaker needs (not planning to gig with it), so the Delta's filled the bill nicely. www.combo-organ.com www.combo-organ.com Report message to a moderator

Re: K250 15" cab? [message #3800 is a reply to message #3799] Tue, 02 March 2004 14:40 willy Messages: 9 Registered: February 2004 Junior Member All My Mentors, So much good info. As mentioned I want a simple switch out for the existing speakers. I don't even know what they are as I write but replacement is probably a good thing with technology advancements and at least 30 years of aging on the OEM speakers. Now... do I go with the Carvins (is it PS15C?) to make installation a bit easier? If Carvin IS the answer what ohm rating do I buy? Two 8 ohm speakers? Eminence Delta was mentioned also. Can I just pop them in? They should be 8ohm also, correct? I'm getting confused (not uncommon). Cheers, Willy 2 shoes Report message to a moderator

Re: K250 15" cab? [message #3801 is a reply to message #3800] Tue, 02 March 2004 16:34 rodak Messages: 511 Registered: October 2001 Location: Georgia Senior Member Well, I may be going out on a limb here, as my experience with Kustoms is limited to my Kombo organ (oh no, it's the guy with the organ again!), but the topic had a LOT of discussion recently, so I think I'm qualified. As I understand it, the 2x15 cabinets were loaded with 16ohm speakers (as is my Kombo organ), wired in parallel, giving a cabinet impedance of 8ohms. Driving a single 2x15 cab with a K200 head (K100 too?), which is rated for max output into 4ohms, will produce less than optimal results. Driving TWO of those cabs with a single head gives max power output. If you plan to drive this single cab with a head rated for 4ohms, then you'll want to load it with two 8ohm speakers. If you want to keep it more to stock specs, then you'll want 16ohms. I just looked at Eminences's web site, and the Kappa's do NOT come in 16 ohms, nor do any of the Carvin's. That said, it looks like the Carvin PS15C is possibly the better speaker, as it's a cast-frame type, with higher output rating, etc, etc. It really depends on what you want to do with it, though. Driving hard and loud with a bass guitar, you may be better served with the PS15C or the Kappa15LF. For moderate, occasional or lower-demand type stuff, the PS15 or Delta might do just fine. I do remember someone here, Deb, I believe, raving about the PS15's (don't know if it was the C's or not). Search the older posts for "Carvin" and you'll probably find some of the posts. If you decide on the Eminence's, I have a friend who deals in them. Visit www.bltsound.com. He doesn't post Eminence prices on the web site, but email him and tell him Robert M. sent you, and he *might* give you a good price (or he might charge you more!). www.combo-organ.com www.combo-organ.com Report message to a moderator

Re: K250 15" cab? [message #3802 is a reply to message #3801] Tue, 02 March 2004 20:53 QModer Messages: 413 Registered: June 2003 Senior Member I may be a little off base so correct me if I'm wrong. But I think that the two hundred amp series likes four ohms so the real optima of the orginal set up was two 2x15 cabs set at eight ohm but haveing two sixteen ohm speakers. Running both cabs produced this four ohm load. The 250 is a different animal and wants to dump its wattage into one cab that is eight ohms using 2x15 speakers of sixteen ohms. Is that right? I only have the two hundred series myself. But I have seen the 250 series before and if memory serves me correctly they only use and extra cab that already has another slave amp in it if you get a second cab. However one 250 head and cab should still produce the same volume or more than the 200 series with two cabs. Report message to a moderator

Re: K250 15" cab? [message #3803 is a reply to message #3802] Tue, 02 March 2004 22:24   pleat Messages: 1452 Registered: June 2004 Location: Belding, Mi Senior Member The K100 heads need a 8 ohm total load to the amp and is about 65watts rms, and not recommended running anything lower. The K200 series amps ran about 65 watts rms with one 8 ohm cabinet and using two 8 ohm cabinets to the head yielded 100 watts rms at 4 ohms. The 250 series amps want to see a 3 to 4 ohm load to produce the 125 watts rms. There are different ways to get a 8 ohm load with two speakers, diameter of speaker is your choice, depending what cabinet you have. Two 16 ohm speakers wired in parallel (+to+ -to-) will be 8 ohms. Two 4 ohm speakers wired in series, (positive from jack to positive of first speaker, negitive from first speaker to positive of second speaker and the negitive of second speaker back to negitive side of speaker jack) will give 8 ohms total. So If you plan on running two cabinets from one K200 amp, I would suggest getting 16 ohm speakers, so running one cabinet you have 8 ohms to the amp, and adding the second 8 ohm cabinet you have 4 ohms and the head runs at full output. You have to decide what is best for your situation. If I were running the K200 head and only plan on using one 2x15 cabinet, I would order two 8 ohm speakers of your choice, wire them in parallel giving the cabinet a 4 ohm total and that will give you the 100 watts rms all the time to th ehead. You just have to remember that you can't add another cabinet to the head. With these things in mind, a k250 2x15 cabinet is a standard 4 ohm cabinet from the factory and the K200 2x15 cabinets were 8 ohm cabinets. If we even the playing field and you change the speakers in the k200 cabinet to operate at 4 ohms, I don't think you will hear any volume difference between the K200 and K250. In all, if I were going for sound coverage, I'd take a K200 head with two 8 ohm cabinets. More air movement means more sound. Don Report message to a moderator

Re: K250 15" cab? [message #3804 is a reply to message #3803] Wed, 03 March 2004 00:15 willy Messages: 9 Registered: February 2004 Junior Member Guys&Gals, I need simple answers to simple questions. Please tell me what to buy to replace original 2X15" speakers for a K250 Bass Amp. Tell me what brand I should buy and tell me what ohm rating. Simple as that. One cabinet that holds 2 15" speakers. I want to replace. Nothing further. Help! I'm drowning in info-overload. Thanks & Regards, Bill Armsden Boston Area Report message to a moderator

Re: K250 15" cab? [message #3805 is a reply to message #3804] Wed, 03 March 2004 01:08 QModer Messages: 413 Registered: June 2003 Senior Member Don't you just love it? I love to hear good tech myself. The best thing he's saying for you is to get two eigth ohm speakers and wire them for four ohms with your 250 and just one cab. He is probably right give that your head wants to see four ohms and you wanna keep to you cab. He then thinks the best for me is the two cabs and he is right. They are very nice, punchie sounding combo. I've never had the pleasure of trying a single cab 250 with four ohms up against my 200 with double cabs into four ohms. Although a fella was out here once with a 250 and a single four ohm cab but yuk peavy cab. We could have tried it and it would have been and interesting little face off with several people there to judge. But we just did'nt think about it. Rats! Report message to a moderator

Re: K250 15" cab? [message #3806 is a reply to message #3805] Wed, 03 March 2004 15:29 C4ster Messages: 686 Registered: June 2001 Location: Mukwonago, WI (Milwaukee... Senior Member Hi, I'm a little slow here. If I were spending your money, I would install JBL E140-8 speakers. These are bass, sub speakers with a response of 40-2500Hz. These will turn your innards to jelly. JBL has not produced these for quite a few years, however they are available on ebay. Reconing is available if necessary. They are very heavy and 2 is about all I would carry around. If you want to buy new, JBL currently makes the 2226H which is close to the E series speaker. JBL had an aluminum 4" dome which made it very recognizable. The new speakers have a cloth dome. This makes them less bright but a 140 was never bright to begin with. If you want to go really vintage, a D140F is appropriate for the era that Kustom produced those enclosures. Also a K140 would work well. The D/K's are lighter that the E's or 2226. All use the same cone kit. I use E140's in my Cascade PA columns and I hit them with 1700 watts. OUCH!! Every speaker in my PA is JBL. For more info on the JBL's, visit www.JBLpro.com. Also check out the pictures on JC's site www.kustomplayer.com. My stuff is in the living room. Almost all cascade. I need more color in my life. Conrad Report message to a moderator

Re: K250 15" cab? [message #3807 is a reply to message #3806] Wed, 03 March 2004 22:58 QModer Messages: 413 Registered: June 2003 Senior Member Man 1700 is a lot of watts there. Must be earth shaking loud. You do have lots of color in your life with a lot of cascade amps. I have double cab one and its pretty cool. Some pics it appears green in others blue. Report message to a moderator

Re: K250 15" cab? [message #3808 is a reply to message #3804] Wed, 03 March 2004 23:36 rodak Messages: 511 Registered: October 2001 Location: Georgia Senior Member Sorry to have overwhelmed you. Maybe this will help (sorry for the length - I do tend to go on sometimes): 1) Since you have a K250 head, just get 8ohm speakers. They'll be easier to find, and you'll get more power out of the rig. Just don't ever team this cab with another 2x15 and drive it with a K200 head, or you may find you have one less K200 head than when you started ;-) 2) What brand and model? It depends (surprise!) on what do you want to do with it. If you just want some decent speakers that will get the job done, don't intend to push them hard or often, and aren't extremely fussy about your sound, then either the Eminence Delta 15's or Kappa 15's, or the Carvin PS-15's would probably fill the bill nicely (note that the Eminence's also come in an "LF" version as well, which has better low bass response). (I'm almost certain that the Carvins are just re-branded Eminence's - Delta 15's, I suspect) If you want something more heavy-duty, then the Carvin PS15C or Eminence Delta Pro/Kappa Pro might be a better choice. These are cast-frame speakers (the previous ones I mentioned are stamped frame), and I *think* the advantage is a more solid construction, less likely to warp or bend, able to stand up to heavier and more frequent use without crapping out on you. There may be other advantages I'm not aware of. The JBL's (or Altec's, for that matter) would certainly keep the cab more "stock" (since those were original equipment) and people tend to agree that they have a better sound than most of the "lesser" brands (Eminence, Jensen, CTS, etc). But the only place you're likely to find them is on eBay, and they will cost a lot more than new Eminences or Carvins. As far as sound quality, though, I couldn't say. You'd have to find someone who has experience with them to offer an opinion. My only *real* experience with speaker comparison was with some Carvin PS10's and some EV Force 10's. As far as mid-to-high frequency response, the EV's blew the Carvins away. My bass sounded NOTICEABLY better through the EV's, and I ditched the Carvin's immediately. The EV's were also cast-frame, versus stamped for the Carvins. However, I put the Carvins into a VERY small cab, and use it in church now, driving them with an old Carvin 100watt head, and it sounds surprisingly good. Not as clear and crisp as the EV's, but miles better than the old Peavey TKO amp we had before - everyone noticed the difference right away. (I'm not necessarily recommending EV speakers, though - I know nothing about their current models/prices/availability, but I believe they do make very good speakers) If you like, for example, the "Rickenbacker" sound, you may be disappointed with Eminence/Carvin speakers. Hope that helps. I think I'll shut up now. www.combo-organ.com www.combo-organ.com Report message to a moderator

Re: K250 15" cab? [message #3810 is a reply to message #3808] Thu, 04 March 2004 03:43 QModer Messages: 413 Registered: June 2003 Senior Member I second the Ev speakers I have always heard that they were good and the ones I've actually heard in person were very nice. There is another company that sells black widow and scorpion speakers. They were a lot of cash but very little sound quality sound difference in the two guys I knew that tried them in peavy amps and paid big bucks for them at the time. But then I just don't think that a peavy is much of a tone machine either. Half of the peavy users that have tried my Kustoms felt the same way and wanted a Kustom then. But peavy does make a loud amp. Report message to a moderator

Re: K250 15" cab? [message #3817 is a reply to message #3810] Fri, 05 March 2004 07:51   stevem Messages: 4736 Registered: June 2004 Location: NY Senior Member HI.heres my 2 cents worth for bass. . If you play with a pick or play some slap bass or if you use that YESS or Kansas type bass sound , you will not get those upper harmonics unless your intened speaker goes up to 4000 cycles, 2500 like the JBL k140s and some others, will not cut it with out a horn or a smaaller speaker for the highs. One thing I found out a long time ago is that a good bass sound has to have highs and lows to have punch,, without the two you just have boom, muddy boom. If you have any type of stereo, or boom box with a graphic EQ just drop out everything above 2000 or so and see what happens to the punch and definition. Report message to a moderator

Re: K250 15" cab? [message #3961 is a reply to message #3794] Tue, 30 March 2004 14:59 KustomBlues Messages: 490 Registered: June 2001 Location: Michigan Senior Member ET, the CARVIN speakers will bolt onto both the old and new 250 cab studs. Buy some carvin PS15 speakers!!!!!! :-) (Unoffical spokeswoman) Report message to a moderator

Re: K250 15" cab? [message #3962 is a reply to message #3800] Tue, 30 March 2004 15:01 KustomBlues Messages: 490 Registered: June 2001 Location: Michigan Senior Member Carvin PS 15 speakers will give you the 4 ohm load if wired in parallel. Buy them!! Report message to a moderator

Re: K250 15" cab? [message #3963 is a reply to message #3801] Tue, 30 March 2004 15:04 KustomBlues Messages: 490 Registered: June 2001 Location: Michigan Senior Member Carvin PS 15 the C means it's the additional cast version and costs more. You do not need the cast version!!!! Stick with the cheaper PS15's, take my word for it. Deb :-) (unofficial and unpaid carvin spokewoman) Report message to a moderator

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