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Re: Early Break-Up On Kustom 100-1 [message #4671 is a reply to message #4666]

Tue, 10 August 2004 14:12

QModer
Messages: 413
Registered: June 2003

Senior Member

Put a sixteen ohm twelve in there if you are just gonna stay with the fifteen in the cab too and add and additional twelve. That will equalize the work done by both speakers and be at the exact impedance the head wants to see. You could use the same back board too and load it in there above that fifteen. The ports should still be big enough. Bud Ross always made the ports a little oversized as port tech was not a fully reconized science back then and he did a good job for his cabs with out even knowing it. The head I saw was blue.

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Re: Early Break-Up On Kustom 100-1 [message #4672 is a reply to message #4671]

Tue, 10 August 2004 17:30

fuzzy4dice
Messages: 49
Registered: June 2004
Location: NJ

Member

OK, now we are starting to cook with GREASE!!!

My KUSTOM is gonna rock.

Here's what I'm thinking...

1. Leave the original CTS 16 ohm 15" speaker in there.

2. Cut a hole above it and mount in a nice 12" 16 ohm speaker above the CTS.

3. Take the head to my amp guy and have him give it a solid "once-over".

4. Take A Nap.

So, question...

When I ran the Kustom head into my two 15" Yamaha PA speakers yesterday (8ohms each) was I running the head in 4ohms?

So, if I was...then by putting another 16ohm speaker in the cabinet...I will really be runing the head in 8ohms?

THANK YOU TEN MILLION TIMES!

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Re: Early Break-Up On Kustom 100-1 [message #4677 is a reply to message #4672]

Wed, 11 August 2004 02:17

QModer
Messages: 413
Registered: June 2003

Senior Member

Yup, you got it. Oh! don't worry about having a tech look at the head if you are just gonna add a sixteen ohm twelve into the cab for a total load of eight ohms. Thats exactly what its designed to do. So all will be fine. If you ever deciede to try two twelves though you can always make a cover plate to convert the bottom speaker hole to a twelve. But I'm kinda stoked myself right now to see how it sounds with a twelve and a fifteen.

This mod should'nt take very long so let us know how it sounds soon.

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Re: Early Break-Up On Kustom 100-1 [message #4678 is a reply to message #4677]

Wed, 11 August 2004 13:40

fuzzy4dice
Messages: 49
Registered: June 2004
Location: NJ

Member

Anyone want to recommend a 12" 16ohm speaker for the cab?

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Re: Early Break-Up On Kustom 100-1 [message #4684 is a reply to message #4678]

Thu, 12 August 2004 11:47

fuzzy4dice
Messages: 49
Registered: June 2004
Location: NJ

Member

Oh Lord...how things are getting complicated...

I bought something yesterday that was not forseen...

Hee Hee...

It is a GIGANTIC Fender Bassman 100 Cab with 4 12" speakers. The cab runs at 4 ohms. I saw it in a thrift store and the price was something I could NOT refuse.

So...I put the Kustom through it last night...it sounds AWESOME! But, I know how I'm not supposed to run it through 4 ohms...it will get mad at me.

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH ME!?!?

Ever Complicated...

ezt

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Re: Early Break-Up On Kustom 100-1 [message #4685 is a reply to message #4684]

Thu, 12 August 2004 12:42

LesS
Messages: 477
Registered: December 2002

Senior Member

Hey ezt,
I played many gigs with a K100 and a 4 ohm speaker.
Later when I got a multimeter I tested the speaker and the actual measurement was 2.8 ohms.
The amp never had a problem.
When using the 4 ohm cabinet, when I was close to maximum clean output, the pilot light would dim; I never noticed this when I ran it at 8 ohms. Also, when I was a little over the maximum clean output limit, the clipping would be a little nastier than when running at 8 ohms, probably because the power supply was not designed to supply enough current to run at 4 ohms.

So there is a good chance that you will not have a problem. If you are worried, put a fan inside � for one of my amps I installed a 220 volt fan - running at 120v it makes very little noise.
-Les S

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Re: Early Break-Up On Kustom 100-1 [message #4686 is a reply to message #4685]

Thu, 12 August 2004 16:20

QModer
Messages: 413
Registered: June 2003

Senior Member

Luke you have been seduced by the dark side. I have a 66Bassman myself with two 2x12 cabs. I have a buddy who has a later model Bandmaster head and one of the big old later Model Bassman cabs with 2x15's in it that are 16 ohm speakers and comes out to and eight ohm load. So he could use another one in eight ohms as the Bandmaster likes four ohms.

Funny thing about those amps is that Leo must have had one two many one night and got the names mixed up cause the Bassman is really a good guitar amp and the Bandmaster is a really good bass amp LOL..

All of my amps are either Kustom or Fender although someday I might own and AC30.

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Re: Early Break-Up On Kustom 100-1 [message #4690 is a reply to message #4528]

Fri, 13 August 2004 07:40

stevem
Messages: 4733
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

Yea, why Leo used the phase inverter set up he did in the bassman must be story of its own. At least most of the bassmans have the bigger output transformers. I have GE 7581 output tubes in my 67 bandmaster, I electricly balanced the phase inverter, and installed a 45 dollar balanced 12at7 driver/phase N.O.S RCA.This thing is one solid bass or super clean guitar amp!In my thinking, leaving the tech stuff reasons aside, with a k100 you can run it at 4 ohms NO PROBLEM, as long as it does not distort to bad. when it distorts hard it will run alot hotter than at 8 ohms, so a fan is the way to go. If your playing it at a volume level and hear no distortion, you are plenty safe.

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Re: Early Break-Up On Kustom 100-1 [message #4696 is a reply to message #4690]

Sat, 14 August 2004 00:09

QModer
Messages: 413
Registered: June 2003

Senior Member

Glad to hear my feelings on the Bandmaster confirmed. You are very right too heat is the enemy of any amp run lower than its designed load for any long lengths of time.

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Re: Early Break-Up On Kustom 100-1 [message #4744 is a reply to message #4696]

Fri, 27 August 2004 11:53

fuzzy4dice
Messages: 49
Registered: June 2004
Location: NJ

Member

I just wanted to give an update to this saga...it is far from over.

I did buy a giant Fender Bassman cab, and I love playing the Kustom head through it at 4ohms...buuuut...much like smoking and heroin use, I know that although it might feel good now I will live to regret it later.

I am going to use that cab for my Fender Rhodes and I will probably mount a nice 16 ohm 12 inch into the Kustom cab and see how that goes. I hope it doesn't let me down.

I am also contemplating the purchase of a Hammond M-100 organ...so there is much craziness to deal with before I plop that 16 ohm sucker in the Kustom.

I'll keep you posted...wish me luck!

ezt

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Re: Early Break-Up On Kustom 100-1 [message #4746 is a reply to message #4744]

Fri, 27 August 2004 17:54

QModer
Messages: 413
Registered: June 2003

Senior Member

I understand now, you are the Keyboard player and your trying to help out the entire band. Sounds like me I'm a guitar player and own enougth stuff for a whole band too LOL.. I have a yamie P120 for piano. It has a Fender Rhodes sound but not as good as the real thing I'm sure. That sound is so pretty that any time you are pitching a new song for any kind of deal use that sound for it every time.

I have and old Leslie that I use a Kustom two hundred head to power. Its my main keyboard rig. However I have to admire and envy you on the M two. I'd like to have and Xk2 or 3, B-3 clone. Much as I love the big hammond sound I have just been using my yami and two casio's for my hammond tones. By setting each one for a different hammond sound its passable but its still no hammond. So that Xk3 would be nice.

I would check the impedance on that big old Bassman cab. I have a buddy who has one here and unless the speakers have been changed its and eight ohm cab stock with 2x15, 16 ohm speakers. I have two of the older smaller ones with 2x12's and they are the four ohms variety. I use those for guitar depending on the venue.

Your little Kustom will definity be better for bass when you add that 16 ohm twelve. But I think that down the road you'll get the thirst for more power as I did LOL.. Good luck and keep us informed.

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Re: Early Break-Up On Kustom 100 (keyboards/Leslie) [message #4747 is a reply to message #4746]

Fri, 27 August 2004 19:18

LesS
Messages: 477
Registered: December 2002

Senior Member

Cool, the last time I remember talking about keyboards here, it was, like,...never
Anyway to put in my two cents, my keyboard rig used to be a K100 head with a 2x12 Altec 8ohm cabinet and Motion Sound Pro3 (the original 1995 30 watt model.. everything I have is old).
My only keyboard is a Korg 01WFD. 75% of the time I play Hammond sounds so the highs over 700 Hz go thru the Motion Sound rotary speaker and the lows with the Leslie simulation goes thru the Kustom. The remaining 25% of the time I play Electric piano and synthesizer sounds which go only thru the Kustom.
Anyway you would not believe how loud and clear this setup was.

Now I am using a K200B-1 and 2x12 JBL K-120 cabinet 8 ohms and the Motion Sound Pro3.
Since the cabinet is 8 ohms the K200 is no louder than the K100 was.
But I am changing to a 4 ohm cabinet (Altec 417's) soon.

The Motion Sound rotary speaker is a great way to get the Leslie sound and still use a Kustom amp and speaker. I used to have the real thing (Leslie 145, 128 lbs) but the 27 lb Motion Sound is the way to go. They have two newer models that are probably better than my Pro 3 - the Pro3T (40 watt amp, 800Hz crossover, built in mic, and output for the Motion Sound Low Pro) and the newer Pro-3Tm (45watts). If anyone has any questions on the Motion Sound stuff, let me know. I do some things with lighting that everyone but me thinks is bizarre. The Motion Sound company is probably concerned only with how they sound.

Keep in mind that piano sounds require a lot more power than other keyboard sounds like organ and synth. If you are happy with 50 watts for organ, you will need at least 200 watts for piano. (And Rhodes is probably worse.. you might need 300 or more watts.) Not sure why .. probably the dynamic range is much greater or the EQ is strange. Even thru a tube amp (I've tried it), piano distortion is not real pretty to most people.

Les S.
VintageKustomFAQ13

[Updated on: Sun, 09 September 2007 22:26]

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Re: Early Break-Up On Kustom 100 (keyboards/Leslie) [message #4749 is a reply to message #4747]

Fri, 27 August 2004 20:41

QModer
Messages: 413
Registered: June 2003

Senior Member

Sounds like a cool set up. I have a double cab Kustom two hundred that I ran the Piano thru. Your keys are about to get a lot louder there with those four ohm load there Les. But call me crazy but I like the sound of that Piano thru the Leslie. The balance of sound that old horn and fifteen gets is nothing short of fantastic.

You are definitly right Les distortion is not the coolest thing on a Piano, Har.. I used to use a 66 Bassman on the Piano but a wurtli sound (setting are always wurtli no matter which one you choose with the Bassman) is not always good on every song by any means LOL.. So enter the Kustom, nice and clean now.

Maybe I should ask some other folks I play with, or for, or record them for and ask their opinion but the leslie just seems to bring the piano to life. No one has ever said how about using the Kustom cabs for piano instead of that big old leslie though either. My Leslie is 5.3 ohms. The Leslie without the internal amp is no heavier than a 2x15 cab but it is bulky.

Again I'm susposed to be guitar player but I find my self on bass or keys if the song calls for it and I enjoy playing them. I do a lot of my writing on the keys too and they are fun to play. When I first got some boards it was just to have something for the band to use that was the bottom basic. Now I'm really into the tones and the playability. I understand things like waterfall keys, weighted keys, hammer action, sustain pedals, and the effect all of this has on the sound, tone, and how it feels playing them.

Its funny too in the past I would'nt have thought that someone would just wanna sit down and play a bass by themselves either but I enjoy that too. I have two Hofner copies one tuned standard and the other one tuned B,E,A,D. My Kustom cabs just boom them out.

Now I'm thinking about getting myself a little drum kit. If I had the cash I'd get one of the Ludwig reissue bop kits. But I'll probably wind up with something in the lower part of the ludwig line. Maybe later I'd get a bop black oyster recover kit for them. I have made and offer on a bop kit so we'll see.

Mean while lets pat our Kustoms on the back for a job well done.

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