VintageKustom.com: Comment Board » Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs???

Home » VintageKustom.com » Comment Board » Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs???

Show: Today's Messages :: Show Polls :: Message Navigator

Switch to threaded view of this topic

Create a new topic

Submit Reply

Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7054]

Fri, 23 June 2006 08:24

woody96
Messages: 107
Registered: May 2001

Senior Member

Folks, I also frequent a Peavey T60 website and made a post there bragging about Kustom amps......got this reply from a (what I thought) reliable person who frequents the Peavey T60 forum:

"Kustom didn't get away with their copying of Peavey amps. They introduced them at a NAMM show and probably had a court injunction before they got back home. I was there, and later had the stupid copy of a Peavey circuitboard with an abandoned trace on it. Hartley hasn't lost a lawsuit, yet! The man goes into everything he does, fully prepared. The front man at Kustom doesn't have a very good reputation throughout the industry. (Their amps work well)."

What do you guys think of this? Essentially, he is stating that Kustom (Bud....) copied Peavey's amp designs and was taken to task for it by Hartley Peavey in the late 60's early 70's........

Ideas? I would LOVE to refrute this!!!

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7055 is a reply to message #7054]

Fri, 23 June 2006 12:52

stevem is currently offline

stevem
Messages: 4733
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

I though that kustom was started in 64, and I know peavey was started in 65 so what year was this going on?

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7056 is a reply to message #7055]

Fri, 23 June 2006 12:57

woody96
Messages: 107
Registered: May 2001

Senior Member

I am not sure; I guess during this time....the poster/thread just stated that flatly, Kustom (Bud) copied Peavey amp design and was taken to task for it......

Again, I cannot believe this.....and would love to prove this wrong!!!

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7061 is a reply to message #7056]

Sat, 24 June 2006 15:23

chicagobill
Messages: 2005
Registered: April 2003

Senior Member

Woody:
I read Chip Todd's posts on the T-60 board, and I was surprised to hear his story. I give Mr. Todd a lot of credit for creating the all machine made guitar, the original T-60, but I would like to hear some real details about the incident before I would judge the story as true or not. Maybe through the fog of 35 years, he's mixed up the names involved, maybe not.

I've never heard of this before, and I've been working in music stores for a long time. As for the the timing, I know up North here, Peavey didn't really have a presence until 1969-1970. And I know Kustom had a showroom here at least 2 years before that.

I do know that both companies used designs that were more or less based upon original RCA designs. But this is true of probably half of the solid state amps out there at the time.

I hope that some of the other guys here will chime in and bring up any info they have on the subject.

Bill

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7062 is a reply to message #7061]

Sat, 24 June 2006 15:40

woody96
Messages: 107
Registered: May 2001

Senior Member

THX Bill; I find this hard to believe.....and like you, hope someone will pipe in and clean this up; I find it hard to belive that Kustom copied any design----- Shocked

Shocked

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7064 is a reply to message #7054]

Sun, 25 June 2006 10:02

John01 is currently offline

John01
Messages: 6
Registered: May 2006
Location: Hershey, PA

Junior Member

I would be surprised if this was true. As I recall in the late 60's and early 70's, Peavey was something you bought if you couldn't afford a Fender, Marshall, Sunn or Ampeg. I would think Kustom would have stole anyone elses design, rather than Peavey. I still consider Peavey a second tier product.

John

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7069 is a reply to message #7054]

Mon, 26 June 2006 07:31

stevem is currently offline

stevem
Messages: 4733
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

They are not in my view a second level company any more,Have you ever played thru a 5150 II or a 6505 peavey head. These heads sound great and have better output and power transformers than the mesa dual and tripple rectifier top of the line heads! if anything the new SSI owned Kustom company is in the back ground. Thank god for their new coup serise amps!

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7073 is a reply to message #7069]

Wed, 28 June 2006 22:18

Smoke1
Messages: 107
Registered: September 2003
Location: Southern Maryland Solomon...

Senior Member

Confused

How about those new Coupe 36's and 72" Gimme some of that Input? Who's got some besides Dolly Parton and Lynryrd Skynyrd? Cool

Cool

Shocked

Confused

Smoke1 Plays Kustom Amps & Old Tube Amps Loud in S. Maryland

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7074 is a reply to message #7054]

Thu, 29 June 2006 08:39

QModer
Messages: 413
Registered: June 2003

Senior Member

Sorry for that. If anything it was the other way around. Kustom was flying high before Peavey was even thought about. Peavey is really a different design that Kustom. Kustom had great some looking, sounding, and selling amps. Kustom really had the first modern bass amp. Lots of headroom that Fender at the time lacked for bass. Bud ported their cabs with the big aluminum ports at first and then chromed ports that we all loved. They remind me of Robby the Robot in a good way.
Peavey had this lightning bolt insigna that did'nt look too great and the aluminum straps going down the front. Emminece made their speakers and CTS made Kustoms. Kustom cabs were mostly 8 ohm and if you got two cabs you had the 4 ohm load that the heads wanted to see. Peavey cabs were ususally 4 ohms and two made the full load of 2 ohms on them they liked. The Peavey porting system was the bottom baffle simular to what Fender used after the tone ring.
Bud later improved the design of Kustom to include more powerful heads and in the second cab slave amps. You could add as many as you wanted or your pocket book allowed you to. As the Pa's of the time were not that powerful. He deeped the cabs and slanted the heads to match. The only problem with that was that we lost the nice Plexi face head in that move.
Fender followed suit and drastically increased the size of their Bassman cabs but still no casters. Peavey cabs were too big to fit in your back as it was. They did'nt follow the slave amp policy of Kustom but increased the power of their heads to keep up.
Probably neither Kustom or Peavey copied the other. But they were both copied by companies like Plush and Earth very closely too. Thats probably who you had heard about copying who and the people that told you that got them mixed up.
I had Kustoms back in the day and I remember when Peavey came out. Thought I wanted one at first. Them being new on the scene and all. I bought one Peavey cab with the eventual thought of getting a Peavey set up. I ended up trading it for a Cascade 2x15 Kustom cab. I already had one Cascade Kustom 2x15.
I had a 66 Bassman at the time with two Bassman cabs and a Kustom Silver/white 3x15 and head. After I got that second Cascade Kustom I just kept getting more and more Kustom's and Fender's. I used my Kustom's primarily for bass, keyboards, and Pa monitors almost any thing. I used the Fender's for guitar only.
Bud sold Kustom and that started their down hill slide. But they seem to be coming back today with some respectful looking designs. Well thats History 101 for the day LOL..

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7078 is a reply to message #7074]

Thu, 29 June 2006 19:44

woody96
Messages: 107
Registered: May 2001

Senior Member

Qmoder; Do you mind if I post your comments on the Peavey T60 website in resppnse to their assumption that Kustom copied Peavey???

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7080 is a reply to message #7078]

Fri, 30 June 2006 02:53

QModer
Messages: 413
Registered: June 2003

Senior Member

I don't think that any thing that I could say would convince them (the peavey people) and I would only get hate mail (which I don't need) from them. But Kustom did not copy peavey. Its hard to copy a product that came after your already established product.
Most peavey people have a little bit of a chip on their shoulders because every one dishes peavey. In my opinion peavey is a good reliable amp. However they sound a bit soul less and the looks are atrocious.
Take for instance the Van Halen endorsement. First he said there would be no lightning bolt logo and no aluminum fins. Then even he dropped the endorsement. Since they are still building his guitar I would expect some sort of legal problems are gonna follow there.
Kustom on the other hand is every bit as reliable, has killer looks, and a good tone. So its hard not to like them especially after you've had one.
One of the things that you discover later on is that if you crank a Kustom with a guitar it suddenly starts to sound like a tube amp.

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7081 is a reply to message #7080]

Fri, 30 June 2006 08:01

woody96
Messages: 107
Registered: May 2001

Senior Member

I won't put that it was you or give your user name away.....I will just cut and paste some of your comments......I really want to add something to the thread there where someone flat out stated that Kustom (Bud) copied the Peavey design and was taken to task for it.....can I do this at least? I want to defend the Kustom line on there and clear this up a bit with some of the responses!!!

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7091 is a reply to message #7054]

Sat, 01 July 2006 00:20

edforgothispassword is currently offline

edforgothispassword
Messages: 202
Registered: July 2004

Senior Member

I have had the pleasure of emailing with Chip Todd a number of times and I believe the guitar market owes him a lot more credit than he has gotten through the years when it comes to production and CC production facilities for guitar making..both with his original work with Peavey and for the work he did to help get Fender back track. I also know and talk with James Brown, also formerly of Peavey, now working with the new kustom company. I think highly of both men and their products and own many of their efforts...all this to say. I'm a Peavey fan when it comes to certain gear...so I have no bias when I say the following:

1) I have no knowledge of a PV/Kustom Ross Inc dispute. I have never heard Bud speak about it in the many hours of stories that he has shared with me..if it happened..it wasn't signigicant enough compared to all the other great stories he has told...and he's been quite honest about his early failed amp designs, his redesign, which sounded far inferior, but was more reliable..etc...
When I first was turned on to Kustoms, they were in all the local music stores..full model lines.....there wasn't a PV amp in sight...I don't know enough about amp design..but I believe that the early franks and the plexi A and B models use a "wideopen" amp design which I believe is quite different from the early PV stuff..but again.. I'm speaking out of ignorance and I admit it.
The only early law suite filings I am aware of..was kustom against Plush..which crossed the line with the kustom style knobs and faceplate..even though internally it was a mirror of the fender twin reverb circuit.. I've seen the schems on both..and its dead on.
But with both Kustom and PV competing successfully in the solid state market..and folks like fender's one SS attempt failing so miserably.. I can imagine that the simple SS designs probably crossed paths at some point...for my 2 cents.. I have a lot of respect for how solid and long lived both amp's have been... I don't own any of the old PVs..always thought they were just ugly cheap looking amps...I do own and use the classic tweed series by James Brown and my backline company rents those frequently as the pro market, albeit very quiet about it, requests those amps a lot...to me, there was no comparison between the tuck n roll cosmetic efforts of early kustom and the workingman's PV look...and even if one had copied the other...I would have never compared the two..so a market position was a non issue..maybe between the later kustom/kasino stuff..where both companies were competing in a budget market..but if you liked kustom tuck n roll rigs...there was no reason to look at the skanky PV offerings back in the early 70s...and in the 65-69 era..again, I never even saw a PV amp..and this boy used to make them drag me out of the store at closing time.
I have sold 7 of my PV guitars over the past couple years..but still own I think about 8 or 9..best effort PVs from the 89-91 custom era..(for you who know..that'd be the Falcon custom, generation, destiny models) a couple of them are my main weekend warriors.. I think more of them than I do my best fenders/gibsons,etc...
If I didn't have my kustom amps..I'd likely run a double set of the classic50 2x12 combos stacked on top of the classic 4x12 cabs as my personal rig...that's how much I think of them...PV will eventually be recognized for the massive input it has provided to the music industry..and will forever go down in history as the biggest company that everyone was embarrrased to play with....Hartley and especially while Melia was alive, kept the PV dream as on track as anyone could when a company grows that large.. Bud..sold kustom too soon and the corporate dicks managed to screw it up as usual..otherwise.. I guess we would have seen many a law suite between the competing companies who follow such close concepts in great amp design...to our brothers on the T60 site..let me just say..your guitars are ugly, your early PV amps are ugly and 30 years later..nobody really remembers when it was that either of them actually showed up on stage...but look back on the brief glory that was kustom..and you'll see the truth... Kool endures.....ET

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7092 is a reply to message #7081]

Sat, 01 July 2006 05:52

QModer
Messages: 413
Registered: June 2003

Senior Member

Yeah go and ahead and cut and paste if you need to then. Just say you got it from some one who was around at the time that both of these amp lines were being produced.
I even worked for the state which subtracted some of the Peavey amps part sub assemblies. Ed is right gross looking then and now. For some reason they just don't get it there.
I do know that I would get off work and happen to go by that facility as part of my rounds. They'd dump any kind of part such as just name plates or whatever that did'nt met their quality control and you really could'nt see the flaws.
So the quality control was good. But obviously Kustom's was pretty good too. I have amps that are going on forty years old now that have never been taken apart and still work just as good as they ever did.
I have even dropped a Kustom head (by accident of course) out of the back of a truck. it hit the road and rolled a few times. We watched in horror. I thought it was a goner. We raced back and picked it up. It had a few minor scratches on the tuck n roll but it worked just fine when we plugged it in then and its still just fine today. See if you can find another brand that works that well after that kind of treatment.
Most new amps today would only find a shredded shell after something like that.
I really don't see why Peavey and Kustom people would wanna tangle in the first place. The problem was not them but Plush and Earth as I said earlier.

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7119 is a reply to message #7054]

Wed, 05 July 2006 09:15

John01 is currently offline

John01
Messages: 6
Registered: May 2006
Location: Hershey, PA

Junior Member

Well, it's looks like you guys served up some crow for old Chip Todd and he had quite a feast. I'm glad somebody set the record straight.

John

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7120 is a reply to message #7054]

Wed, 05 July 2006 11:30

edforgothispassword is currently offline

edforgothispassword
Messages: 202
Registered: July 2004

Senior Member

please please please don't see it as an attack back on Chip..or any of the PV boys..lord knows..they need all the support they can get..cause the market atittude towards PV has just never really been good..and honestly I think that the name deserves much more respect...Chipp's contributions are significant on the guitar and guitar electronics side..and James Brown as well...Hartley himself has earned the highest honors by staying the course..albeit he has let too many corporate suite whores run/ruin his company since Melia passed......just looking at those who have left the company these past few years will tell you the truth on that..but the point of this post was to talk 1960s...my world stretched from new jersey to Georgia back then..and PV never caught my eye on any of the stores...if it was there.. I just didn't see it..I remember kustom, fender, acoustic...etc...but I was a young gun...I was oblivious to the corporate wars that may have been waging...and Bud himself will admit to more than one finegalling...take the whole warranty repair serial number swap and the organ "upgrade" as examples..he's far from a saint and may have employed some of the very same amp designers that Hartley consulted with back then.. I mean chances are good they all read the same few books available on solid state amp design...I guess I'm just pulling for both side here.. Hartley has done right by us workingmen all these years...and Bud's efforts to add kool to the day...well..both brand names live happily together here in ET world...ya'll Play Loud..whatever you use...

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7121 is a reply to message #7054]

Wed, 05 July 2006 12:48

stevem is currently offline

stevem
Messages: 4733
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

You can tell how detailed Kustom was back then, more so than any other early SS amp builder, IE, you look at the schematic for the frank heads, and they spec tested and closely matched output transistors. And the driver and output transistors where top of line RCAs with gold plated leads, Go and try to find those ina early peavey!

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7127 is a reply to message #7121]

Thu, 06 July 2006 00:34

QModer
Messages: 413
Registered: June 2003

Senior Member

Amen. If you can even find and early peevee.

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7132 is a reply to message #7054]

Thu, 06 July 2006 09:46

edforgothispassword is currently offline

edforgothispassword
Messages: 202
Registered: July 2004

Senior Member

I was thinking back to when I first saw a PA...it was about 1974.. I was working in a local bar..small town...the house band was a 3 piece..gtr/bass/drums..small stage...the PA system was a PV 4 channel head of some sort...those round metal knobs on a metal face?...it was running into kustom cabs...the guitar player had 3 of the 2x15 jbl cabs with guitar jbls in there..and a single 3x15 cab...in the corner of the stage..he had one 2x15 stacked upside down on top of the 3x15 ..and on stage left with him were the other two side/side...fidelity?...actually ..its was vocals n guitar...so it worked just find...the bass position (me) was through an SVT...the club provided it.. back then my personal rig was a pair of the kustom 2x15s with a 200 head...but when I played at that club I was on the SVT... I don't recall why the guy had the PV head..he was one to just get deals and use whatever worked...but it was the first time I had even seen a PV..didn't know what it was..but that it wasn't too purty..and I didn't really look at it twice....the local schools and folks looking to buy cheap were purchasing the kasino line by then...still didn't see PV...just the black..and then the blue kasino stuff...for the record.. I still have an old PC CS400 power amp..it was given to me years ago..used it a couple times..but it doesn't have as tight a low end as a little 200 kustom head and isn't any perceivably louder..we've talked about power ratings before on this forum...and how amazed I am that a 100watt rms kustom head sounds as loud, and sounds tighter than a 400watt PV..its in the design diff...and I'm too dumb to know more than that.. I love my kustoms cause they look so kool..it wasn't until years later that I realized they also take very well to pedals....and 30 years on..they are faithfully hanging in there with me..and have good value on the market...the CS400..yeah..its still works..but who cares...it costs more to ship than its worth..and I think it weighs more than a kustom organ (grin)...I'm grateful for PV.. I really am..but when it comes to their amps... I've just never fallen in love or even lust for anything they've designed...but to be honest..if you hid a PV amp chasis behind a kustom plexi plate and stuck it in a kustom cab.. I'd probably be happy..guess that makes me a lil tuck n roll ho....

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7136 is a reply to message #7132]

Thu, 06 July 2006 11:35

LesS is currently offline

LesS
Messages: 477
Registered: December 2002

Senior Member

I have always had a lot of respect for both Peavey and Kustom.
Every band I’ve been in has had some Peavey gear, and it was always dead reliable.
I owned a Peavey 500 mixer for 10 years and it was solid. When I sold my 20 year old Microbass, the pots did not even need cleaning. The little 20 watt amp in this thing has DDT compression – and it seemed like you got more usable volume out of it - I used it on stage as a keyboard and PA monitor for many years. I’ve owned Peavey powered mixers and power amps and had no problems with any of them. I let our lead singer use my PVM22 mic and I never got it back – it is the Peavey equivalent to SM58. I believe that Peavey does get a lot of unfair disrespect and it is better quality than people give it credit for.
And as far as Kustom, to me one of the greatest Kustom mysteries is why a K100 amp plays so loud. For a few jobs, for my keyboard I used a Bassman (50 watts) with brand new 5881’s and a Guild Thunderbass (50 watts) with brand new 8417’s, and the K100 was louder and cleaner than both.
-Les S

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7147 is a reply to message #7054]

Fri, 07 July 2006 13:02

stevem is currently offline

stevem
Messages: 4733
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

I will assume you mean a non-combo 60s or 70s bassman head, which would have wanted a 4 ohm load, as would the other tube head. So if the cab used by all 3 heads was the same 8 ohm cab, then the k100 had a step up.A 50 watt bassman head with new outputs will be working hard on a 8 ohm load to do 26 watts RMS,plus a impeadance mismatch up on a tube amp also changes the inductance seen by the output transformer so the that less bass is produced. Not good for a bass player!

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7650 is a reply to message #7147]

Mon, 02 October 2006 20:39

pinkelephant is currently offline

pinkelephant
Messages: 5
Registered: September 2006
Location: Pryor, OK

Junior Member

Kustom vs. Peavey...

I'm trying to remember what Kustom gear we have had...other than my Kasino Club 210s, which sound freakin' awesome through my Altec 1214, esp. if i boost the treb just a bit.

I've been a hardc0re Peavey fan for years...our church had a Peavey XR-500 and a pair of the classic Peavey tower speakers. We retired those and moved up to a 16-channel mixer, a CS800, running both mains and monitors; mains are SP-2As, monitors are either 12 or 15" stage monitors...don't recall which. And then our prison team has used the Peavey Standard 260 for years. My new setup will have a hot-rodded Kasino cabinet powered by a Peavey M-3000.

All that to say that Peavey stuff has been rock-solid, reliable, and great-sounding...never had a problem with any of it, other than poor bass performance outta the Tri-Flex satellites (whaddya expect outta a 6.5" speaker?)... which is more than I can say for the Carvin gear that we tried around the same time that kept crashing out under the same loads that the Peavey handled flawlessly.

All that to say that I've never considered Peavey in any way substandard. Ugly as sin at times, but who makes a pretty amp? Other than Kustom. Smile

Smile

josh

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7657 is a reply to message #7650]

Wed, 04 October 2006 13:41

BC
Messages: 583
Registered: March 2000
Location: Kentucky

Senior Member

When we got together in Nashville in 2000 some guy came up to me and told me about a tuck and roll amp he had. I asked Bud about the brand and he said that was the original name for the amps that later became Krossroads. The brand name was the same as the MODEL name of a then extinct Peavey model and PV squawked about it but no legal action was taken. Bud then changed the name to Krossroad. I am not certain but I think the name may have been "Klassic"! C'mon ET, Dan, Pleat, Roy.....somebody....you were there! Cool

Cool

BC

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7661 is a reply to message #7054]

Thu, 05 October 2006 02:51

QModer
Messages: 413
Registered: June 2003

Senior Member

Thats it Klassic. Good one. I had forgotten all about that one BC.. I remember now it was a take off of the Kustom Kat name.
It was a further advanced verision that Bud was at first planning to put out, then I think his son, and then finally after Baldwin they got control of Kustom.
So between all the musical chairs at the helm. Carly over at Peavey had designed what became called the Peevee Classic series released first. That was dreamed up to cash in on the Vintage rage.
Fender was really big into it as was Marshall. But Fender even more so. They had gone all the way back to the Tweed amps and still keep releasing more in the Vintage types of amps to this day.
The entire Custom shop line had Blonde Tolex and Marroon Grilles. I have a Tone Master from that series. Now they have the 59 Tweed Bassman reissue's and the 57 Twin Tweed reissue's. I even have a Fender Pro Jr in Tweed.
So Peavey put Tweed on their amp and put in some tubes in it and had instant Classic Vintage amp. Wink wink!. Of course since it was their orginal idea they couldn't have a Kustom amp running around called a Kustom Klassic now could they.
You might even say my new little red Kustom 36 Coupe is really the same sort of Vintage type of Vibe. But I suspose we shouldn't call it Classic, maybe just Vintage, or prehaps not vintage, or well it uh! looks like its older than it is. I know its a nostalagic amp. Yeah thats the ticket.

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7664 is a reply to message #7661]

Thu, 05 October 2006 07:52

rodak
Messages: 511
Registered: October 2001
Location: Georgia

Senior Member

Take-off on the Kustom Kat name? I don't get it. Did the Kat have a name?

Was the Peavey named "Classic" or "Klassic"? If it was Classic, then I think they had a lot of nerve pushing on Bud for using Klassic - I doubt that would have held up in court.

Probably just as well, though - Krossroad is a cool name, especially with the embedded "Ross".

Oh, just for my own 2cents on this old topic, I don't believe for a minute that Bud copied any of Peavey's designs. As I recall, the Kustom name was already well-established before anyone ever even heard of Peavey.

www.combo-organ.com

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7665 is a reply to message #7664]

Thu, 05 October 2006 09:19

BC
Messages: 583
Registered: March 2000
Location: Kentucky

Senior Member

To clarify and keep everyone on the same page....I had jumped in time to the late 80s early 90s with the mention of the "Klassic" amps...I think they were the same as the Krossroads amps with different badges. Also Krossroads had the Road amp name embedded which was a Bud Ross design as well. Anyone out there got a Road 220 or 440 that needs to be driven hard by a 52 year old bass nut? BC Cool

Cool

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7674 is a reply to message #7664]

Fri, 06 October 2006 02:29

QModer
Messages: 413
Registered: June 2003

Senior Member

I whole heartedly agree with both of you on both accounts Rodak and BC.
I'd like to just have a Crossroads head. I still use two of my Kustom heads for Piano and Organ. I have two Kustom cabs set up for bass using a Behringer 450 watt head.
I use another single cab Kustom 200 to show the bass player his parts quite often while using another one of my basses. I'm not far off the mark on being as loud as he is. I would imagine the Crossroads would be a straight up match.
Off topic a bit how many basses are you up to now BC? I'm up to five basses and fourteen guitars LOL.. Two of the guitars are twelve strings though.

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7676 is a reply to message #7674]

Fri, 06 October 2006 08:53

BC
Messages: 583
Registered: March 2000
Location: Kentucky

Senior Member

Still holding at 6 basses. 2 Rickenbackers, a MIM Jazz, a component P-bass, Jay Turser Hofner copy and of course my KUSTOM. BC Cool

Cool

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7678 is a reply to message #7676]

Fri, 06 October 2006 14:28

QModer
Messages: 413
Registered: June 2003

Senior Member

What no guitars?

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7687 is a reply to message #7054]

Mon, 09 October 2006 22:53

edforgothispassword is currently offline

edforgothispassword
Messages: 202
Registered: July 2004

Senior Member

while I've never personally seen one...yes, the pre-production Krossroads amp was a Klassic and he did run into his old "friendship" with PV on that as their Classic series was already in play..that was the tube rigs that were orginally cosmetic in the black rough finish and the silver bars on the grill..the tweed series came afterwards with the classic 20,30, 50,100 and delta blues being offered up first..oh, and a kicking 400watt bass head sitting on top of an 8x10 tweed cab..still would like one of those..it was a great bass rig.. I do have the 30, 50, and 100 tweed rigs in my backline inventory and they are great rigs.
The initial Klassic/Krossroads offering included the original style kustom knobs and was offered in a 500 watt powerhouse head with the 2x15 bottom..the head had a hum problem that Bud never could get resolved...then they started producing the dual cabinet stack which included the 500 modified head with the graphic slider eq and the 2x10 cab on top and the 1x15 on bottom as well as the 2x15 cab option..at that point they also came out with the combos which came in both 2x10 and 1x15 cabs with and with out the horn/biamp option..noted by the "H" in the model number...the combos used a totally different amp design rated at 200watts rms non-clippable at that level..very nice and pro grade..I still have 2 of them myself and they've been abused but still work great.
but then, I still have a CS400 out in the shed..bought it used for $20 so have no idea what kinda life it led before I decided to beat the crap out of it...and it still works fine, as does my PV500 powered PA head and graphic eq and multi fx unit and unity 8 channel mixer and my 2 nashville 400s and my vegas 400 and my Tim Landers signature 5 string bass and the Koa wood 4 string and my 7 PV custom guitars...all this to say.. I'm not knockin PV when I tell you I believe that Kustom came first and the initial Franks, A and B series took nothing from PV..maybe the later slants.. I don't know about them...or the tolex kustoms that came later thanks to the idiots that were Baldwin...but for the era that I love of kustoms...there was and is nothing like them.....ET

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7688 is a reply to message #7687]

Tue, 10 October 2006 03:49

QModer
Messages: 413
Registered: June 2003

Senior Member

True to form Bud was way ahead of his time as usual. The Cross Roads would undoutably developed in to a monster amp had he continued with it. Probably the grounding service in home's and business were not up the par that they are today either.
I remember too that Gibson was in a simular law suit. The name Elite was already being used by another brand. To avoid suit Gibson called its poorer relation companies line Elitist instead. Since its only a very slight name change in spelling as is the case with Kustom and Custom. Bud would have probably won his case for Klassic over Classic with PeeVee.

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7690 is a reply to message #7054]

Tue, 10 October 2006 08:56

edforgothispassword is currently offline

edforgothispassword
Messages: 202
Registered: July 2004

Senior Member

he probably could..but he also knew he didn't have the resources to duke it out..better to get to market..which is tough enough with a new product these days..and he has a lot of experience with that..and that was more or less his comment on it at the time...plus remember, you never know how a judge is going to rule..remember Fender's brush with Gretchdrums over the broadcaster? was it? guitar vs drums..but still fender had to change and our loving telecaster was born.
With kustom's them of playing the 'K' on everything..it still holds a klear implikation to model naming..and I think that would have been to Bud's disadvantage before a judge.
The Krossroads were pro level rigs..if anyone has had a chance to play one, they'll affirm that..I would be just as proud to play a full Krossroad rig as I am to play a kustom..and I can't say that about any other amp..nor the reissue kustoms, nor even my PV classics which I do think a lot of...in fact I will go as far as to say that the early Classic tweed series PVs were/are the best production amp on the market..and with my warehouse full of toys to choose from.. I'll pass over a marshall or fender current production rig every time and go straight to the Classic rigs..mind you we do retube every amp that we buy ...but tubes are all that I do to the PVs...with the Korg based marshalls, the new vox (can you say crap), ampegs, fenders...etc..you'll find my bench guy hand soldering cheap wave soldered boards, replacing different value resistors, rewiring with decent gauge...etc...quite a bit of work before I can consider those new production amps ready for pro stage rental use....and yet...35 years on.. I can still, and do , pull a lil kustom off the shelf load it up and go play a weekend band job..and some of those amps at most have seen a filter cap change, and some pot cleaner....well done Bud.

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7692 is a reply to message #7054]

Tue, 10 October 2006 13:53

stevem is currently offline

stevem
Messages: 4733
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

It`s sad, these days you just about have to go to low quanity production custom made amps to get the build quaity of the Bud made Kustoms. This buds for you Bud!

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7697 is a reply to message #7054]

Tue, 10 October 2006 23:42

edforgothispassword is currently offline

edforgothispassword
Messages: 202
Registered: July 2004

Senior Member

I had to open up a kustom SC2x12 100 rig this evening...not cause it needed any work...its perfect..but because I'm having a heck of busy month..and I am down to my last backup/reserve fender twin which has to be pressed into service for Johnny Winter this thursday..however, this amp, is a dead clean 71 fender super reverb..which had some nice JBL D120f speakers in it...but...last time out...damn kid blew one up..it happens..anyway...the speaker recone guy can't get it fixed in time for this job..so I was stuck trying to find 8 ohm 12s...all my marshall celestions etc are 16ohm..and even the newer fender blues devilles are 16 jensons..fortunately this kustom had 8 ohm 12s in it...so for this week...they are now riding in the fender...but I'll tell ya...opening the back of both amps side by side...the kustom has better material....real wood..not pressboard in the kustom...etc...and ya know..head to head... I think Mr. Winter might have had fun using the kustom...but the market being what it is...the fender will go out and make some money for me...they kustom...well...it'll remain my personal treasure..and I'm just liable to load those reconed jbls in it before I'm done(grin)..actually I've got my eye on a pair of CTS speakers at the recone shop..will likely buy them...put the jbls in a 65 fender 2x12 tall cab that I have a 64 showman head sittig on right now...all will be right with the world..but it sure was nice to see out and inside of my kustom this evening...don't too often need to go there..cause they just don't quit!

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7698 is a reply to message #7697]

Wed, 11 October 2006 00:51

QModer
Messages: 413
Registered: June 2003

Senior Member

Your so Right Steve and Ed. One look inside a Kustom gives you new respect for the Kustom amps and Bud the man who build them.

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7700 is a reply to message #7054]

Wed, 11 October 2006 07:32

stevem is currently offline

stevem
Messages: 4733
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

Hey Ed, I had a similar time with a guys twin I was working on in a way.He needed a little less volume and more output stage dirt from the fender and he could not afford any type of powersoak at the time, so I wired his fenders 2 8 ohm jensen c12k`s( new twin reverb) in serise and the amp put out about 25 watts less RMS, cut his volume just enough and sounded a bit more like a deluxe reverb with 6v6 outputs but still the 6L6 punch.
This mod will chew up the outputs a bit faster though.

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7702 is a reply to message #7054]

Wed, 11 October 2006 12:20

QModer
Messages: 413
Registered: June 2003

Senior Member

I've done that very same mod before with a Twin using a 4x12 cab. You'd think though that people would realize that the Twin is famous for its clean not its dirt LOL..

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7704 is a reply to message #7054]

Wed, 11 October 2006 12:49

stevem is currently offline

stevem
Messages: 4733
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

Yup, it`s still just a crutch somewhat.

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7705 is a reply to message #7054]

Wed, 11 October 2006 13:35

edforgothispassword is currently offline

edforgothispassword
Messages: 202
Registered: July 2004

Senior Member

I did run a pair of 16 ohm 12s in one of my fenders a while back and yeah..it actually sounded notably warmer...but yer right...the twin reverb was built from the ground up to be clean.. I personally love the growl of the twin with the jbl load..but hate to waste that on the average stage rental when they don't know or care..so they get mostly reissue 65s with std jenson loads...on the same note...several years back I acquired a kustom 4x12..the original one with the ports on front...that cab was originally wired as a 4 ohm (series or parr.. I can't remember which is which)..anyway... for a while I stacked a 2x12SC on top of it (yeah..awesome stack) ...so I rewired the thing the other way (series/parr? I dunno)so that it loads at 16ohms now...then I tried pushing that with my 64 fender showman head and what I found was that it tightened the cab nicely...got rid of the floppy feeling that it had..and that showman still has plenty of beef to crank at volumes I want...then I took it to play on some outdoor stages with the showman/4x12 in the middle and my pair of kustom SC2x12s on either side.. I used a morely ABC pedal and this let me run the beef and sag of the fender tube amp...very bold ...and kick in the quickness of the solid state rigs for solos and extra power chord work on some songs... makes for a really good day on stage...a bit hard to stand in front of though..cause....dang!

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Re: Did Kustom copy Peavey amp designs??? [message #7707 is a reply to message #7705]

Thu, 12 October 2006 03:48

QModer
Messages: 413
Registered: June 2003

Senior Member

I've got one of those newer Twin models now that have series and parrellel jacks in back as well as and impedance matching switch. Hook that up to the 4x12 with its internal 12's too and its a real beast.
Its still that same Twin clean though. It has a quarter power switch but there is still almost no difference in the volume.

Report message to a moderator

Send a private message to this user

Pages (2): [1 2 › »]

Switch to threaded view of this topic

Create a new topic

Submit Reply

Previous Topic:	K200B 1 output jacks???
Next Topic:	Speaker Info Request

Goto Forum:

-=] Back to Top [=-

[ Syndicate this forum (XML) ] [

] [

PDF

]

Current Time: Thu Apr #d 08:37:00 EDT 2024

.:: Contact :: Home ::.

Powered by: FUDforum 3.0.9.