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Few questions about replacement speakers [message #12003] Sun, 27 September 2009 11:57 Go to next message
RickBlacker is currently offline  RickBlacker
Messages: 133
Registered: October 2008
Location: Oregon
Senior Member
I have a couple questions here.

My amp puts out 60 watts... I was looking at some replacement speakers, some were 15 watts, some 12 watts, some 60 watts, some 75 watts.

What is the affect of using a watt of speaker that does not match up to the watt that your amp puts out? Does it harm anything? From my understanding, you should put a watt of speaker that is not higher than the watt output of your amp right? I could be wrong on that.


Also... I find that my tone is rather thin with my affects pedals. I'd like to thicken up the sound for some better midrange and lower end response.

I know that JBL was suggested. I dont have anything against JBL at all, I'm just wanting to get other suggestions so I can compair and try to find the best for what i'm looking for out of my amp.

I'm really wanting to get a nice growly 80's rock sound.


My amp : K100C-8
Re: Few questions about replacement speakers [message #12005 is a reply to message #12003] Sun, 27 September 2009 13:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rodak
Messages: 511
Registered: October 2001
Location: Georgia
Senior Member
I think speaker and amp power(wattage) ratings are one of the most misunderstood topics around. Amp power ratings generally specify a max THD(Total Harmonic Distortion) rating, which means the amp can produce x number of watts without distorting the signal more than y%. Most any amp, however, can be pushed well beyond it's rated output...IF you don't mind additional distortion. Using high-output pickups, a heavy-handed technique, and some effects boxes can all push an amp into higher output and associated heavy distortion (and not necessarily a pleasant or desirable distortion). Speaker ratings are power HANDLING capacity. In theory, your speakers should be rated at or above your amp's rated output, assuming also that the impedance is correct (8 ohms worth of speakers presented to an amp with an output rated for 8 ohms, etc). But speaker ratings aren't necessarily hard and fast, either. Feed a speaker a pure square wave signal, at a power level well below it' rating, and many will be damaged. So it's possible to take an amp rated for 10 watts, feed it a heavy, high-level signal, plug it into a speaker rated for 50watts, and blow the speaker.

From what I've heard and read(I'm by no means an expert), some speakers are just made better and are more robust than others. A 100watt JBL may handle a particular signal just fine, while a cheaper Eminence may fry with the same input. In general, you get what you pay for. I don't know how well the current brands stack up. Back in the 60s, Altec and JBL were the premium brands, CTS and Jensen were the more pedestrian brands.

It's probably a good idea to get speakers rated at least as much as your amp is rated for, but keep in mind your own personal playing style. If you're playing light jazz in a coffee shop, those 12 watt speakers may do just fine. If you're playing heavy metal in a large club, you probably ought to go for 2(or 4!) of those 75watt jobs.

Probably the most important factor, and the hardest to quantify, is how the speaker "sounds". You can get a lot of advice here and elsewhere, from people who've tried out various brands. Ideally, you'd want to A/B compare several brands and models in person using your amp and guitar/bass in a live performance situation, but that's not likely to happen. A good place to get some expert advice is tedweber.com. Ted Weber builds his own speakers. He seems to be pretty well-respected for his knowledge of all things speakers, and could probably make some recommendations if you describe your sitation. His speakers can be a bit pricey, though, but I believe they're probably very well made and reliable.

Or, you could just get a couple of Eminence Delta 15's and be done with it Wink



www.combo-organ.com
Re: Few questions about replacement speakers [message #12006 is a reply to message #12005] Sun, 27 September 2009 13:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pleat is currently offline  pleat
Messages: 1452
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi
Senior Member
Rodek gives some great advice. When I was in retail, we sold kustom, fender, peavey, EV and JBL. JBL published a pamplet on the effects of to little wattage and the amp driven beyond it's capabilites will destroy a high quality speaker. It's been years since I've read it, but agree that a amp that produces too little power will fry a JBL. One customer bought a Peavey Pacer 45 watt RMS single 12 amp. He bought the JBL K120 speaker for it and proceeded to blow two speakers in one weekend. I look at the RMS wattage of the amp, and if it's a 50 watt RMS and has two speakers in it, I'll get two 25 watt speakers and wire them in parallel so that each speaker is taking 50% of the power. Make sure that the total impedance of the speakers matches the impedence of the amp. I like this arrangement for a couple of reasons, the cost is cheaper and the speaker cones move a bit more giving some color to the sound.
Besides if you blow one, it's a cheap fix. I've been using the cheapest Jensen MOD series speakers and they sound great to my ear and with my processors just have a fat full sound to them.
I have the 12" version in my K50, the 10" versions in my K150SC 2x10. I have yet to cook any of these speakers.
Don
Re: Few questions about replacement speakers [message #12007 is a reply to message #12003] Sun, 27 September 2009 14:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RickBlacker is currently offline  RickBlacker
Messages: 133
Registered: October 2008
Location: Oregon
Senior Member
What is the RMS wattage of the K100C-8? I was told that it's a 60 watt amp. Is that the same thing or something different?

My amp : K100C-8
Re: Few questions about replacement speakers [message #12009 is a reply to message #12007] Sun, 27 September 2009 19:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pleat is currently offline  pleat
Messages: 1452
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi
Senior Member
All the kustom amps were rated at a peak power rating which is double the RMS wattage give or take a few watts. The K100-8 would be a 50 watt rms amp.
Don
Re: Few questions about replacement speakers [message #12027 is a reply to message #12009] Mon, 28 September 2009 19:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RickBlacker is currently offline  RickBlacker
Messages: 133
Registered: October 2008
Location: Oregon
Senior Member
I think i've found my replacement speakers.

http://www.eminence.com/guitar_speaker_detail.asp?model=RAGI NCAJUN&speaker_size=10&SUB_CAT_ID=4




My amp : K100C-8
Re: Few questions about replacement speakers [message #12034 is a reply to message #12027] Tue, 29 September 2009 00:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jc is currently offline  Jc
Messages: 217
Registered: March 2000
Location: N.W. Chicago Suburb
Senior Member
These might be an interesting option:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=16036 5879867&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink: top:en

jc
Re: Few questions about replacement speakers [message #17362 is a reply to message #12006] Wed, 15 August 2012 02:30 Go to previous message
musicdorian is currently offline  musicdorian
Messages: 1
Registered: August 2012
Junior Member
With all due respect, I've been using a Peavey Pacer with a JBL K120 in it, for 30 years, and have had no problems. I've even used it with pedal steel guitar, which should put a pretty good load on the speaker. What I suspect is that your friend drove the amplifier hard enough to start clipping the waveforms (putting out something like square waves, effectively DC through the coil in the speaker, creating a heating element.) I believe that the reason that I have been able to use a K120 loaded Pacer, for decades, is because I didn't drive the amp into saturation. I've used this amp when playing with loud bands, but never have I driven the amp "full out." You can use a Pacer with a K120 and it will work just fine, even run loudly for a few hours. Just don't run the thing with the volumes fully clockwise.
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