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Kustom 415B [message #16052]

Sat, 10 September 2011 16:04

Muziekschuur
Messages: 27
Registered: March 2010
Location: Stavenisse

Junior Member

Who knows a Kustom 415B

It's an '80's basscabinet.

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k618/MVD1974/IMG_2679.jpg

Anybody knows anything about this item?

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Re: Kustom 415B [message #16068 is a reply to message #16052]

Mon, 12 September 2011 18:13

stevem
Messages: 4733
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

I saw one once when they where out new in a music shop, did not have the time on hand to play thru it though.
It must sound pretty huge I would guess, I would also guess its dam heavy to move around also!

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Re: Kustom 415B [message #16070 is a reply to message #16052]

Tue, 13 September 2011 03:15

Muziekschuur
Messages: 27
Registered: March 2010
Location: Stavenisse

Junior Member

Lucky me it has wheels and I do own a little bus.

Thanks so much for confirming it's a genuine item.

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Re: Kustom 415B [message #16071 is a reply to message #16052]

Tue, 13 September 2011 07:24

stevem
Messages: 4733
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

I am not confirming its a Kustom unit for sure as the one I saw is clouded by many moons ago!
Tha cabinets side handles look very Peavey like though?

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Re: Kustom 415B [message #16072 is a reply to message #16052]

Tue, 13 September 2011 09:17

Muziekschuur
Messages: 27
Registered: March 2010
Location: Stavenisse

Junior Member

I understand. I will look for the things I'm told to look for. I will report back.

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Re: Kustom 415B [message #16077 is a reply to message #16052]

Fri, 16 September 2011 02:42

Muziekschuur
Messages: 27
Registered: March 2010
Location: Stavenisse

Junior Member

It is a genuine Kustom article.
It has the KUSTOM handles.

And it has an aluminum plate on the back;

Kustom
Chanute Kansas
5-15 B
Serialnumber; S162226
US patent number; 210 129

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Re: Kustom 415B [message #16078 is a reply to message #16052]

Fri, 16 September 2011 06:43

stevem
Messages: 4733
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

Thanks for pinning it down.
That cab is a good canidate for neomag drivers!

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Re: Kustom 415B [message #16079 is a reply to message #16052]

Fri, 16 September 2011 07:42

Muziekschuur
Messages: 27
Registered: March 2010
Location: Stavenisse

Junior Member

You are reading my mind.

But current drivers are all ok....
One driver gives my ohm meter the run around. But when I connect it.. It puts out a decent tone...

What's up with that...

I saw the Fane drivers at 50 euro's a piece. Not neodynium. But fairly high efficient....

[Updated on: Fri, 16 September 2011 07:42]

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Re: Kustom 415B [message #16080 is a reply to message #16052]

Fri, 16 September 2011 12:44

chicagobill
Messages: 2005
Registered: April 2003

Senior Member

Remember that if the cone moves in or out, a small voltage is produced by the voice coil, which will cause your ohm meter to produce weird readings. So try and stabilize the cone and then take your ohm readings.

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Re: Kustom 415B [message #16083 is a reply to message #16052]

Fri, 16 September 2011 17:12

Muziekschuur
Messages: 27
Registered: March 2010
Location: Stavenisse

Junior Member

I'll remember that. I assume some plastic had mixed with solder at the place where I measured. It now reads 7 ohms...

Those Fane speakers come in a 3.7 KG. So that would make this a very light cab I assume...

Well, tomorrow I'll swap some speakers around and make some connections.... Right now it plays rather well with 2x15 connected....

But the transients would be way better with more efficient speakers.... These remind me of the sluggish B&W peavey speakers from the early 80's.

older designs were way way more efficient..... Hmmm. Those Fane's sound better by the minute.

But this cabinet needs new wheels, new cloth and frame for it and a nice big Kustom emblem.... Where on earth Am I gonna find that.... I could reproduce it in steel or in plastic.... But what material was it fabricated in to begin with....

http://www.imagedump.nl/img694/5518/69imgp4702.th.jpg

[Updated on: Fri, 16 September 2011 17:13]

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Re: Kustom 415B [message #16087 is a reply to message #16052]

Fri, 16 September 2011 18:51

stevem
Messages: 4733
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

Myself I would go with Eminence or Weber neomag`s.

As far a the Kustom bage goes, find someone near you who has one, take a straight on shot of it, load it to your computor and print it out on good decal paper.
Then make up a plastic laminated base painted the right color, and then apply the decal.

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Re: Kustom 415B [message #16089 is a reply to message #16052]

Fri, 16 September 2011 19:57

Muziekschuur
Messages: 27
Registered: March 2010
Location: Stavenisse

Junior Member

Awesome....

Great advice...
Weber..... hmmm.
I'll look into that....

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Re: Kustom 415B [message #19006 is a reply to message #16052]

Tue, 30 July 2013 10:14

Muziekschuur
Messages: 27
Registered: March 2010
Location: Stavenisse

Junior Member

I'm still looking for other owners of a 4x15 415B Kustom cabinet. There must be others.... Right?

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Re: Kustom 415B [message #19012 is a reply to message #16052]

Wed, 31 July 2013 07:13

stevem
Messages: 4733
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

Probibly, but so far your the first here!

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Re: Kustom 415B [message #19013 is a reply to message #19012]

Wed, 31 July 2013 18:29

Kochens
Messages: 80
Registered: April 2009
Location: Denmark

Member

This is not a Kustom cabinet. Embarassed

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Re: Kustom 415B [message #19018 is a reply to message #16052]

Sat, 03 August 2013 11:56

Muziekschuur
Messages: 27
Registered: March 2010
Location: Stavenisse

Junior Member

It is a Kustom IV cabinet. A 4x15.

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Re: Kustom 415B [message #19019 is a reply to message #16052]

Sat, 03 August 2013 17:03

Kochens
Messages: 80
Registered: April 2009
Location: Denmark

Member

No old catalogs show this item, and I tryed google the picture. No match! But it could be a private build, maybe by one at the Kustom company.

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Re: Kustom 415B [message #19021 is a reply to message #19019]

Sat, 03 August 2013 21:18

pleat
Messages: 1452
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi

Senior Member

The tolex covering and corner brackets match the head and I believe it is a true kustom cab. The pocket handles were standard and both Peavey and Kustom used them. the only difference is the logo insert on the handle. Kustom was using pocket handles on their large cabinets in the series before the Big K series. I guess photo's of the handle and the model tag on the back of the cabinet should confirm it's a kustom. I'd guess it was made just before Kustom closed, which might be one reason that literture hasn't surfaced.
pleat

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Re: Kustom 415B [message #19022 is a reply to message #19021]

Sat, 03 August 2013 21:43

Muziekschuur
Messages: 27
Registered: March 2010
Location: Stavenisse

Junior Member

Someone confirmed to me that there were musicstores in the States stacking these big 4x15 cabs. With the Kustom IV heads. Wich could allso insert a second EQ(optional).

And my cab and a cab from the States show up on images. But that's all there is. Mine probably came to holland either for trade show purposes or together with a Musician who left it behind. The cab and head have served many years in a theater in Leiden or somewhere around the The Hague, Leiden area.

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Re: Kustom 415B [message #19024 is a reply to message #16052]

Sun, 04 August 2013 11:17

zedsalt
Messages: 64
Registered: March 2008

Member

It's far from proof that Kustom didn't make this particular cabinet, but every reference I can find to similar ones that is positively identified is a Sunn. Some have non-recessed handles, some have casters on the bottom, some have casters on the side, some lack the metal grills (although all the Sunn metal grills match these), some have different finish colors inside the cabinet, etc., but all of the components of this cabinet are mirrored in one Sunn 415 or another. Maybe we'd have better luck going by the dimensions. The Sunns are 26" x 40" and weigh in at about 120 lbs. There are many more measurements shown here: http://sunnforum.ampage.org/index.php?topic=5235.14 but they might not all match the original measurements exactly, as it's a restoration project. Hope this helps.

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Re: Kustom 415B [message #19025 is a reply to message #16052]

Sun, 04 August 2013 12:06

Kochens
Messages: 80
Registered: April 2009
Location: Denmark

Member

How does this cab sound? I think it is a total overkill with 4x15". Because bass players prefure 10" and maybe 12", and only 2x15" cabs. But I am not a bass player, so teach me. Smile

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Re: Kustom 415B [message #19026 is a reply to message #19025]

Sun, 04 August 2013 14:02

Muziekschuur
Messages: 27
Registered: March 2010
Location: Stavenisse

Junior Member

The 4x15 is a ported cab the sunn is not. We have compared this on talkbass. Please read it there.

The 4x15 is a cabinet which has a sound. It colours. I have a 2x10, 1x18, 1x15 and a 4x12 &2x15.
The 4x15 is a long throw cab. It has its uses.

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Re: Kustom 415B [message #19029 is a reply to message #19026]

Sun, 04 August 2013 21:44

pleat
Messages: 1452
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi

Senior Member

Someone sent me photo's of the back of the cabinet with the back off showing the speakers. From what I see the top right speaker is not a match to the other three and all speakers are wired in series, so there may be a phase issue with the odd speaker. The feed wire from the top left speaker - term is going to the - of the odd speaker. I'd use a flash light battery to make sure all cones move in the same direction. One speaker out of phase will be detrimental to the tone of the cab. One speaker out of phase with the rest will cancel bass tones. The top right speaker has an orange surround on the cone.

That being said, I don't think the metal grill covers were stock to the cabinet when new. Kustom used star nuts to secure the speaker bolts and don't see where the grill bolts come through to the back and secured with star nuts.
If you look at the front of the cabinet there are vertical 3/4 x 1 1/2 strips of wood that would be used to hold the front grill panel.
Also the patent number 210-129 is actually the patent number for Tuck and Roll covering. It's on everything kustom ever made.
pleat

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Re: Kustom 415B [message #19046 is a reply to message #19029]

Tue, 06 August 2013 16:47

Muziekschuur
Messages: 27
Registered: March 2010
Location: Stavenisse

Junior Member

It's not:

http://file.vintageadbrowser.com/0sjqih5o64wty6.jpg

Thanks for the wiring tip. I will look into this. After this image was shot I did do some modifications. I used a battery to determine the polarity of each speaker.

[Updated on: Tue, 06 August 2013 16:47]

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Re: Kustom 415B [message #19048 is a reply to message #16052]

Wed, 07 August 2013 11:12

zedsalt
Messages: 64
Registered: March 2008

Member

I think what Pleat was saying is that 210-129 is the patent for the tuck 'n' roll process as a covering for amplifiers and speaker cabinets, that any identifying plate with those numbers on it was originally attached to something with the tuck 'n' roll covering. I'm wondering if that's the case, though, because when I look for patent disputes involving Plush or Earth brand amps and cabinets that have very similar covering, the only patent dispute I find was over an electronic component inside a Plush amp. Could it be that Bud Ross never patented the design, and that's why there was no big fuss over amplifier makers who used the same process, with variations in the direction, size, angle, etc. of the pleats? Might the 210-129 be something other than a patent number?

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Re: Kustom 415B [message #19051 is a reply to message #16052]

Wed, 07 August 2013 13:12

chicagobill
Messages: 2005
Registered: April 2003

Senior Member

The US design patent covers the specific design of pleats running front to back. I think it was called flutes in the descriptions. Search USD210129 and read the actual application.

Plush used diamond tufted designs, and Earth stole whatever they could to sell amps.

Plush amps looked kinda like a Kustom amp with the padded, sparkle covered cabinets, but were electronically copies of Fender Twin Reverbs.

Earth amps were copies of whatever amp line was the most popular. They copied some Peavey designs right down to the pc boards. This is what finally got them in trouble.

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Re: Kustom 415B [message #19054 is a reply to message #19051]

Thu, 08 August 2013 05:34

pleat
Messages: 1452
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi

Senior Member

Bud Ross told us at the 2009 kustom convention in Chanute that he did sue Plush and Fender was also involved in a suit with Plush. Kustom won, and I think Bud said that Fender also won their lawsuit. Here is some info I found on Plush and Earth amps. pleat
http://www.plush-amps.com/

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Re: Kustom 415B [message #19056 is a reply to message #16052]

Thu, 08 August 2013 11:15

zedsalt
Messages: 64
Registered: March 2008

Member

Ah, there it is- "combined electric guitar amplifier and loud speaker housing unit or similar article"...filed June 3, 1966...patented Feb. 13, 1968...and all it took was knowing the proper form of the patent number. Thanks, CB! Y'know, if this cabinet is a Sunn, I hope their feelings haven't been hurt by all of this. They make fine products and, to the best of my knowledge, haven't been involved in any of the intellectual property shenanigans Plush and/or Earth was. If a Sunn cabinet sounds good driven by a Kustom amp, what's the problem? (says the guy who gouged out a cavity on a '72 Guild S-100 Deluxe with a Dremel tool and stuck a pre-CBS Strat single coil between the Guild's stock humbuckers)

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Re: Kustom 415B [message #19066 is a reply to message #16052]

Fri, 09 August 2013 17:17

Muziekschuur
Messages: 27
Registered: March 2010
Location: Stavenisse

Junior Member

It's a Kustom....

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Re: Kustom 415B [message #19079 is a reply to message #19066]

Sat, 10 August 2013 13:07

Kustom_Bart
Messages: 601
Registered: October 2010
Location: Greenville, MichiGUN

Senior Member

/\/\ exactly that! This IS a Kustom cabinet.

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Re: Kustom 415B [message #19087 is a reply to message #16052]

Sun, 11 August 2013 10:51

zedsalt
Messages: 64
Registered: March 2008

Member

"...a combined electric guitar amplifier and loud speaker housing unit or similar article showing a preferred form of my new design wherein the top and side surfaces are fluted from front to back." "The ORNAMENTAL DESIGN (emphasis added) for a combined electric guitar amplifier and loud speaker housing unit or similar article..." Wouldn't it be illegal for anyone...including the patent holder...to put that patent number on anything that doesn't have the tuck 'n' roll covering? Wouldn't it be "fail(ing) to deliver the benefit of the patented article or process" of the ornamental design to display the number on anything that doesn't involve that specific ornamental design?

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Re: Kustom 415B [message #19088 is a reply to message #16052]

Sun, 11 August 2013 14:08

chicagobill
Messages: 2005
Registered: April 2003

Senior Member

Yes in theory, but it happens all the time for any number of reasons.

A single label made for use on multiple amps, a deliberate attempt to hide patent technical information, errors in plant management, etc.

Look at the Gibson patent number sticker that was put on thousands of humbuckers for years. It was not the number for the pickup patent.

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Re: Kustom 415B [message #19097 is a reply to message #16052]

Mon, 12 August 2013 11:46

zedsalt
Messages: 64
Registered: March 2008

Member

I'm familiar with the humbucker/tailpiece decal...umm...I don't want to call it a "story", as that would imply I thought it was fiction..."incident"? An "incident" can unfold over a period of years, right? And the conspiratorial tone isn't entirely inappropriate, as the reason for it may well have been to discourage research into the patent. So we're going with the assumption that this speaker cabinet is a prototype built by Kustom, perhaps a one-of-a-kind item, and that's the reason for the incorrect patent tag? Reading similar threads in other forums began by our friend Muziekschuur (or at least, someone using the same screen name and amp/cabinet photo) is what led me, eventually, to the drawing of the Sunn 415M that I posted a link to. I figured the chances of a prototype made by Kustom having the same dimensions as a production model Sunn were pretty slim. Surely, even if someone at Kustom was trying to emulate features of another company's product, they would've made SOME changes to avoid intellectual property issues (if for no other reason), right? Preferably, changes that would not have any great impact on performance? That's why I posted the link, not to be confrontational over what the cabinet is, but to provide a quick, easy means of possibly making certain that it's not a Sunn 415M.

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Re: Kustom 415B [message #19100 is a reply to message #16052]

Mon, 12 August 2013 12:45

chicagobill
Messages: 2005
Registered: April 2003

Senior Member

When I look at the photos of the cabinet, I am willing to assume that it is a standard Kustom manufactured item and not another company's product relabeled as a Kustom. And because I've seen more than one of these, I am also willing to assume that this is not a one off or prototype cabinet.

Why the label has the tuck and roll patent number on it is something that probably no one can really answer, certainly not me.

There are at least three different companies that I know of that have used that cabinet/baffle design. It was probably patented by the original designer and licensed to whatever company wanted to pay to use it. Or it may have been designed by a speaker company and given to whomever wanted to use it. I just don't know.

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Re: Kustom 415B [message #19102 is a reply to message #19100]

Mon, 12 August 2013 13:36

pleat
Messages: 1452
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi

Senior Member

Hopefully this link http://www.guitarcenter.com/In-Store-Vintage-VINT-KUSTOM-70S -415B-4X15-BASS-ENCL-109287953-i3325238.gc

Will put to rest, that it is a Kustom cabinet. Guitar Center in Florida just posted a photo of the 415B, so they do exist and the one in Florida is an older tolex covered cab. The original photo of the cab on this thread, is late 70's early 80's rougher Tolex cover that matches the big K series.
pleat

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Re: Kustom 415B [message #19103 is a reply to message #16052]

Mon, 12 August 2013 14:10

Muziekschuur
Messages: 27
Registered: March 2010
Location: Stavenisse

Junior Member

No photo

(

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Re: Kustom 415B [message #19104 is a reply to message #19103]

Mon, 12 August 2013 19:22

pleat
Messages: 1452
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi

Senior Member

They must have sold it. Guitar Center was only asking 94.99 for the cab, so I guess it wouldn't last too long before it was sold. I sent the photo to KustomBart who knows how to post photos on this thread.
pleat

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Re: Kustom 415B [message #19110 is a reply to message #16052]

Tue, 13 August 2013 11:03

zedsalt
Messages: 64
Registered: March 2008

Member

As glad as I am that another example has been found online, the price it went for bums me out to no end. I mean, I'm happy for the new owner, but the majority of the postings of the Sunn 415Ms that I found were sales listings, and five bills appears to be the average they brought...plus S&H, which I think we can safely assume added big bucks to the total spent...lowest price I saw was four hundred, and that had over one-eighty for shipping. I was going to compare our beloved Kustoms to Rodney "I don't get no respect" Dangerfield, but I think a better metaphor would be an actress of substantial intellect who is physically attractive enough that no one gives her due credit for her smarts. Not new information, I know, but *sheesh!*

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Re: Kustom 415B [message #19140 is a reply to message #16052]

Wed, 14 August 2013 17:10

Muziekschuur
Messages: 27
Registered: March 2010
Location: Stavenisse

Junior Member

Those cabs are right now worth next to nothing. So lots of those cabs will be trashed. The Kustom IV amplifier is a wanted amp allready. It will only be another decade before this cab will be wanted too.

Untill then....

But I can say that this is not a cabinet for everybody. Because of it's sound, size and .... feel... We will see more and more bedroom bands who will play inear on stage and who will sound the same as the record... For those bands this cab will be useless...

[Updated on: Wed, 14 August 2013 17:12]

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