Home » VintageKustom.com » Replacement Part Suggestions » Kustom Tuck and Roll 2x12 replacement speakers..
Kustom Tuck and Roll 2x12 replacement speakers.. [message #16822] Mon, 26 March 2012 15:05 Go to next message
Anodizer is currently offline  Anodizer
Messages: 7
Registered: March 2012
Junior Member
Hi gents! New here to this forum... I bought a 2x12 Tuck and Roll cab a few months ago.. While it is the original Jensen speakers, they are not impressive.. How to these Tuck and Roll cabs respond to a set of Celestion Vintage 30's? The style of music I play is similar to Ozzy era Black Sabbath.. The Cab looks great! I just want it to sound great too!! Yes, I am willing to spend the money on Vintage 30's, however if someone knows something better that is less expensive, I'm all ears!!

Thanks!!
Re: Kustom Tuck and Roll 2x12 replacement speakers.. [message #16823 is a reply to message #16822] Mon, 26 March 2012 17:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pleat is currently offline  pleat
Messages: 1412
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi
Senior Member
Welcome to the site. As far as tone, I guess we'd need to know what brand of amp you are driving the cabinet with. Your cab is an 8 ohm cab, so there may be some impedence issues, if your amp is designed to run a 4 ohm load. If your amp is a 4 ohm, then I'd replace the speakers with 8 ohm speakers wired in parallel for a 4 ohm total load, and get the brand you like. I have three Kustom K50 amps, one is loaded with the Jensen C12n, another amp is loaded with a Celestion Rocket 50, and my third amp is loaded with an Eminence. Of all three amps, I prefer the Jensen. Each brand has some plus's but overall tone for the style I play the Jensen sounds the best to me.
pleat
Re: Kustom Tuck and Roll 2x12 replacement speakers.. [message #16826 is a reply to message #16823] Mon, 26 March 2012 19:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kustom_Bart is currently offline  Kustom_Bart
Messages: 601
Registered: October 2010
Location: Greenville, MichiGUN
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I would put some Jensen's in it. I am not a fan of the Celestion at all. I do like the Eminence though. Pleat can tell you what modern day Jensen's...like the Jensen MOD's as they sound nice. Even in my Marshall 4 x 12 cabs I didn't like vintage 30's.

Bart
Re: Kustom Tuck and Roll 2x12 replacement speakers.. [message #16827 is a reply to message #16822] Tue, 27 March 2012 01:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anodizer is currently offline  Anodizer
Messages: 7
Registered: March 2012
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Jet City JCA22H, Orange Dual Terror, Hughes and Kettner Cream Machine.. All amps have 8ohm and 16ohm output.. Obviously, the Tuck and Roll is an 8 ohm cab..

The cab has the original Jensens, they sound fine but not as good as some 2x12 cabs that have Vintage 30's or something similar that I have heard.. Not enough low end.. Not enough punch.. I have tried all 3 of these amps with other cabs(friends, stores, etc) that have V30's, G12t-75s, Green Backs.. They sound great.. Totally the sound I'm, looking for..
Would this Tuck and Roll cab sound good with something like a Vintage 30? Or maybe even just replacing one speaker...?
Again, I play heavier music that is Black Sabbath based..

[Updated on: Tue, 27 March 2012 02:27]

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Re: Kustom Tuck and Roll 2x12 replacement speakers.. [message #16828 is a reply to message #16827] Tue, 27 March 2012 06:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pleat is currently offline  pleat
Messages: 1412
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi
Senior Member
You may want to close off the port holes. A quick way is to stuff a styrofoam cup into them to see if it gets closer to the sound your looking for. Other than making it sealed cab, then I guess changing the speakers would be your next option.
pleat
Re: Kustom Tuck and Roll 2x12 replacement speakers.. [message #16829 is a reply to message #16822] Tue, 27 March 2012 06:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stevem is currently offline  stevem
Messages: 4284
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY
Senior Member
First off hello, but I have a question, is your 2-12" cab a vintage one with port tubes, or not?

A vintage one with its stock Jensens(C12N model driver) if still in the cab should sound pretty good, but I have seen some with and with out doping on the surround and these do lack bass unless they have been played alot and at a good enough volume to break them in.

Jensen C12Ns do have a mid cut to them and more top end than any Celestion model driver.

The Eminence Governor model driver is better than the now Chiness made Vin 30 model, and alot cheaper and has more of the mid bark you are looking for along with big bass.

If your T&R cabinet does not have ports them you have one of cabs from the TR50 serise of amps that the NEW Kustom company put out in 2000 to 2001.

The Jensen drives fitted to the 2000 to 2001 cabs are of the Mod serise and are not rated for as high a SPL level as the C12N, or any Celestion which would acount for there lack of punch, no less bass responce.

[Updated on: Tue, 27 March 2012 06:49]

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Re: Kustom Tuck and Roll 2x12 replacement speakers.. [message #16831 is a reply to message #16829] Tue, 27 March 2012 12:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anodizer is currently offline  Anodizer
Messages: 7
Registered: March 2012
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My TR cab is vintage with two ports on each side.... Made in Kansas.. Guy I bought it from said it was from the early-mid 70's.. Based on my research, I believe this to be accurate..
I'm just looking for a better sound out of the cab.. My friend's Orange 2x12 sealed cab with v30's blows this TR cab away.. Just looking for a similar sound with good low-end and mids...

What about Weber? Are they any good?
Re: Kustom Tuck and Roll 2x12 replacement speakers.. [message #16832 is a reply to message #16831] Tue, 27 March 2012 13:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kustom_Bart is currently offline  Kustom_Bart
Messages: 601
Registered: October 2010
Location: Greenville, MichiGUN
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Say it with pic's and let us see what you have with the cab open etc. Those cabs sound great. There has to be something not right to make it not sound good. To me any of that Orange stuff or Mesa stuff is muddy to me and it all runs on tube heads too, that is a huge difference. However I can take my tube head and make a vintage Kustom 2 x 2 or even 2 x 15 cab and make it break up and just rock. I guess it depends on a lot of things. What are you using for a head? Does the cab have insulation in it? what does the head want for ohms, what is the cab for ohms? lots of variables here. Get us some pics and some info on what you are trying to drive it with and we can go from there.

[Updated on: Tue, 27 March 2012 13:51]

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Re: Kustom Tuck and Roll 2x12 replacement speakers.. [message #16841 is a reply to message #16822] Wed, 28 March 2012 06:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stevem is currently offline  stevem
Messages: 4284
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY
Senior Member
My first good bass amp was a K100 with 2-12s, and it was punchy and loud for 50 watts rms, so its not the cabinet, in fact the port tubes should make it have more bottom and punch than a closed back/sealed cabinet.
Sealed cabinets beam more and have more mids and a cut in lows.
The key to getting a driver to work really good in a ported cab is to load it with a driver that is looking for the added inaternal cab volume that having the ports tubes simulates, this is a factor out of many as to how a driver is speced call VAS, so it will be found in a drivers spec sheet.
If you compare two drivers, one with a freer cone, the one with the freer cone will put out more bass, as its moving more air with less wattage.
this lets you cut back on the bass output of the amp which helps the amp stay cleaner at a higher volume which our ear translates into more punch!
The only problem is with a driver like this the cone at some givin volume/wattage level will lose control and sound like mud!
Most new speakers need to be broken in to get the low end up to its intended level, and you can aid this by powering the speakers with a Variac, and Weber speakers has a calculator to help you figure out how many volts to pump into them.
It could just be that your Jensen drivers( if the are original) do not have enough play time on them to be broken in?

[Updated on: Wed, 28 March 2012 07:00]

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Re: Kustom Tuck and Roll 2x12 replacement speakers.. [message #16850 is a reply to message #16831] Wed, 28 March 2012 22:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pleat is currently offline  pleat
Messages: 1412
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi
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Getting back on track. Have you removed the back to inspect the actual speakers? Kustom made two versions of the 2x12 cab. The first version has a slight taper from top to bottom when viewed from the side. The second version, the cab is straight when viewed from the side. I'd open up the cab and make sure the actual speakers are good and you don't have one that's about blown or a frozen cone. I'd also make sure the speakers are wired in parallel, and in phase. A 9v battery can be used to test the cone movement, and make sure they both move in the same direction. A cabinet that is about 40 years old, no telling who might have been in there before you got it. Those cabs do sound good. I've owned several over the years in all the speaker configurations kustom offered. A few of the collectors have used weber speakers in their cabs, and they seem to like the results.
pleat
Re: Kustom Tuck and Roll 2x12 replacement speakers.. [message #16853 is a reply to message #16822] Thu, 29 March 2012 06:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stevem is currently offline  stevem
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Good point Pleat! If the driver wiring has been messed with and they are out of phase your beating a dead horse!
Re: Kustom Tuck and Roll 2x12 replacement speakers.. [message #16863 is a reply to message #16822] Fri, 30 March 2012 07:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stevem is currently offline  stevem
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Those are the new manufacture Jensens as you have found out, I find these need a good break in session witha Variac for 8 to 10 hours, your better off in that light picking out different drivers!
Re: Kustom Tuck and Roll 2x12 replacement speakers.. [message #16865 is a reply to message #16853] Fri, 30 March 2012 08:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pleat is currently offline  pleat
Messages: 1412
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi
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I have the exact same speaker in my K50 single 12 Kustom and it fits my needs. That being said, a couple of things to consider.
The cost you have have in the cab, and the cost to change out the speakers to get the sound your looking for. Does that put the cost higher than you could buy a cab that you've tried against the kustom cab? You might be further ahead cost wise to sell the kustom cab and buy a cab that you like the sound of. Of course you don't have the cool T&R look. I've had the same cabs with CTS speakers and they are great sounding, just a little darker in tone than my Jensen cab. The CTS cabs were sold as a bass guitar cab.
pleat
Re: Kustom Tuck and Roll 2x12 replacement speakers.. [message #16900 is a reply to message #16865] Wed, 11 April 2012 01:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anodizer is currently offline  Anodizer
Messages: 7
Registered: March 2012
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I like the look of the Kustom Cab.. Only cost me $100 bucks, so adding another hundred or two in speakers isn't going to bother me.. I just would like input on whether it will make a significant difference in the sound I'm looking for.. If the cab is limited by its construction and will pretty much sound the same with any other set of speakers, then I'd like to know that too. Was specifically looking for anyone who had this cab that changed the speakers out to something like or similar to V30 or WSG's Veteran 30 and how they felt about the results..

I play mostly things that sound similar to Black Sabbath(Fu Manchu, Orange Goblin, High on Fire, Sleep, Acid King,
Electric Wizard, etc.).. If you are familiar with these bands then you are familiar what kind of sound I'm looking for.. I've heard other 2x12 ported cabs that sound awesome to me.. Hopefully, I can do the same with this Kustom cab..
Re: Kustom Tuck and Roll 2x12 replacement speakers.. [message #16901 is a reply to message #16822] Wed, 11 April 2012 06:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stevem is currently offline  stevem
Messages: 4284
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY
Senior Member
You have heard other speakers and cabinets, but have they been played at the same volume as you are gauging your sound at?
What I mean is the sounds/bands you mention all use a ton of preamp distortion, and at low volumes these sounds have no balls in a live situtation unless mic ed up!
In this light you maybe better off just using 1-12" so you can drive it harder.
You last choise I guess is to get a cab and speaker set up you like and have it tuck & rolled!
Re: Kustom Tuck and Roll 2x12 replacement speakers.. [message #16933 is a reply to message #16822] Thu, 19 April 2012 16:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anodizer is currently offline  Anodizer
Messages: 7
Registered: March 2012
Junior Member
Just about a pair of Celestion G12 T-75's.. Hope they make this thing sound killer.... I'll post and let you guys know..
Re: Kustom Tuck and Roll 2x12 replacement speakers.. [message #16934 is a reply to message #16933] Thu, 19 April 2012 18:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cassent5150 is currently offline  cassent5150
Messages: 341
Registered: August 2009
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Anodizer, I know how you feel. Got this cool cabinet and want it to sound a certain way. The guys on here are very educated in all aspects of how this stuff works and way over my head on a lot of it. I have a working knowledge of 20 yrs plus of using these kustoms in bands and not always with a Kustom head. My first was a Traynor head on a Kustom T&R cab. My feeling as a musician on this is as long as you have those Celestions wired in phase with each other, your going to get plenty of bottom out of it as well as that breakover into distortion your looking for. If your like me and a lot of players I know. The amp will get most of the distortion going for you and to have the speaker add a little more just puts this icing on the cake. I've used the celestions in a few of my Kustoms. I have a 2X12 with the vintage series G100-12T Celestions. They sound fantastic but, its like stevem was saying earlier. Don't be fooled by the first hour or two of using them. They will be bright, tight and kind of coarse sounding till you get them broke in and loosened up. They will smooth out and the bottom will fill right in nicely, just give it time. If I remember right I used a delay pedal I have with a loop. I looped the first part of AC-DC's Back in Black on it with a couple humbuckers at minimal volume. I left the room and came back a hour or so later pushed the volume a little more and let it play all night. Came back to the studio in the morning to silence "The batteries went dead on the delay". This delay will last for around 8 to 10 hrs usually with a single 9 volt. The speakers are still in the cabinet and still sound great. So the bottom line I guess is I think you'll find your sound once they're broke in. Steve C

Steve C
Re: Kustom Tuck and Roll 2x12 replacement speakers.. [message #16935 is a reply to message #16822] Fri, 20 April 2012 00:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anodizer is currently offline  Anodizer
Messages: 7
Registered: March 2012
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So, I picked up the G12T-75s off of Craigslist.. 2 of them for 50 bucks.... Just the deal I'd been waiting for.. The guy was cool enough to let me use his tools to install them at his house so I didn't have to do it at our rehearsal spot.. They sound f-ing awesome!! What an improvement!! I'm using a H&K Cream Machine as a pre-amp/distortion unit.. Using the JCA22H by Jet City as well.. I'm pretty sure I'm settled on this sound.. From my observation the C12n's were all mid.. I actually had to turn the mids to about 10 o'clock on the knob with the C12ns.. With the T75's, I can run the mids at about 12 o'clock and they sound perfect! The highs are creamy and smooth.... What I'm most impressed about are the lows!! Finally! Ample low end!! And that's what I've wanted this entire time.. Bass no longer has to be cranked.. These speakers are VERY responsive.. Lucky for me, they are already broken in.. I love 'em and I suggest anyone looking for a heavier sound in the T&R 2X12 to give them a try.... These Jensens may be sought after in certain styles of playing.. But they don't do well with distortion in my opinion.

What do you gents think I can sell those jensens for? They are in perfect condition.. They aren't vintage(made in Italia).. Looks like they aren't even broken in yet.. The outer edge of the speaker cone is quite stiff.. 8ohms each.. I see new ones for between 80 and 100 bucks..
Re: Kustom Tuck and Roll 2x12 replacement speakers.. [message #16936 is a reply to message #16822] Fri, 20 April 2012 01:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anodizer is currently offline  Anodizer
Messages: 7
Registered: March 2012
Junior Member
I'd also like to thank all of you for your input.. Smile
At least you gents weren't purists as opposed to other
forums I went to..

They made it sound like I was committing some sort of sacrilege by changing out the speakers, running something other than a Vox or Fender head and not playing music more like Stevie Ray Vaughn..
Re: Kustom Tuck and Roll 2x12 replacement speakers.. [message #16937 is a reply to message #16822] Fri, 20 April 2012 06:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stevem is currently offline  stevem
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Registered: June 2004
Location: NY
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Ah! so they where new issue Jensen`s in the cab, yup they need to be broken in a good amount!
Glad to hear you have your tone now, that ported Kustom 2-12 will just about kick the butt bass wise of the standard non-ported 4-12" cab!
Re: Kustom Tuck and Roll 2x12 replacement speakers.. [message #21007 is a reply to message #16822] Fri, 25 July 2014 04:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Omri KB is currently offline  Omri KB
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Registered: March 2013
Location: United States
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I know you already swapped your speakers out, but I found the best bass solution for my own TR 212 cab was just putting a Kustom TRT100 Head on top of it, not only brought the tone back that I was looking for but the cab also looks best with it's own head on it. If you've found your solution then go for it, but this has been my experience with the re-issue Kustoms.

Rock on!
~Omri KB~


~ The Infamous Omri KB
Re: Kustom Tuck and Roll 2x12 replacement speakers.. [message #21008 is a reply to message #16822] Fri, 25 July 2014 06:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stevem is currently offline  stevem
Messages: 4284
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY
Senior Member
He has a vintage 2-12" cabinet that is ported unlike your new cab that is not ported, also this is a vertical type cabinet where as yours is horizontal.
The newer TRT heads are some 6 inches wider than his 2-12 cab so placing that head or even a K200 head on top makes for a strange Tee shaped looking stack!
The porting of the cabinet can also make the same speakers preform quite different than in a non ported cabinet so it's not just a. Apples top apples deal some times !
Just sayin!
Re: Kustom Tuck and Roll 2x12 replacement speakers.. [message #21196 is a reply to message #21008] Sat, 16 August 2014 09:53 Go to previous message
Jerrybass1955 is currently offline  Jerrybass1955
Messages: 45
Registered: August 2014
Location: NC
Member
Not an authority on Kustom replacement speakers, but I have had great luck in my other amps using Weber Speakers. Call them up and tell them what you are looking for and I bet they can set you up with great sounding speakers at reasonable prices. They will even break them in for you for free.
www.tedweber.com
Jerry
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