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Kustom 101 for Dummies [message #21429]

Thu, 11 September 2014 00:29

Iowa Boy
Messages: 767
Registered: June 2014

Senior Member

Will try this again since I have been kicked off twice tonight.

This is a continuation of the 300 thread. I seem to be having trouble grasping the concept of using two amps to get more speaker volume. So if you have two 200 watt PA systems do you have the same amount of sound as a 400 watt PA system? Or with the two 200 watt systems do you still have only volume of sound of a 200 watt system?

Since the 600 series I want is over priced, I'm trying to figure out a way to use the K400b-5 that I already have and a 300 series PA head that I am interested in buying. Seems that there has to be a way to be able to use these together and get more sound then the 400 I already have. Since we can split the signal from an instrument using a Y adapter and running two independent amps, I would think you could do the same with a double PA system. Or is there a way to piggy back these amps together and using one set of speakers? I intend to use my 795 PA amp to run my 595 rebuilt PA speakers to run as monitors.

The guy with the bi-amp forgot to remove his ad 2 years ago so that mixer is now long gone. How thoughtful!

So is there some simple way to make this work or do I hold out and hope someone lists a 600 PA at a reasonable price? The 3-15's cabinets I have can more than handle the power I'm looking for can't they since each 15 is rated at 250 watts RMS?

I need clean sound....Kustom's seem to be on the noisy side generally anyway when idling, so any feedback or hissing is not desirable.

How would you do this to make it work?

[Updated on: Thu, 11 September 2014 01:16]

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Re: Kustom 101 for Dummies [message #21430 is a reply to message #21429]

Thu, 11 September 2014 06:45

stevem
Messages: 4733
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

You want to run both your 300 and 400 for PA right?
I posted that all you needed to do was run a cable from the 300s monitor output to any input on the 400 and then set the 400 in Nono.

This will allow you to run the 300 with its speakers and the 400 with its speakers.
whatever you have plugged in to the input of the 300 will now pass into the 400!

since you will now have twice the amount of speakers basically you will have near twice the volume then you would have if you used either just the 300 or 400 for PA, and this is your goal right?

And yes if you have for example if you have 2 K200 heads you have the same amount of wattage as a 400 has and the same minimum load of 4 ohms per amp, of which the 400 has two of the same output stages as one k200 has!

Can we put all this PA stuff to rest now? LOL!

Sorry that the BiAMP is gone, as that was a great deal!

[Updated on: Thu, 11 September 2014 06:46]

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Re: Kustom 101 for Dummies [message #21431 is a reply to message #21429]

Thu, 11 September 2014 10:15

Iowa Boy
Messages: 767
Registered: June 2014

Senior Member

What about the hiss that you heard on your amps?

If I use the monitor jack on the 300 to power the 400, can I still use the RCA jack on one of the amps to run the 200 to the monitors, or has this caused another problem?

Yeah, really sucked about the bi-amp. Now that I know what to look for, will keep my eye out for one.

You've been a big help and can't thank you enough.

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Re: Kustom 101 for Dummies [message #21432 is a reply to message #21429]

Thu, 11 September 2014 11:25

stevem
Messages: 4733
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

Yes, you can still pull signal off it the RCA out on the 400 to power the k200 for monitors !

I do not know if the hiss level you end with will be a issue as that depends on how loud you need to run the 400, or how low you run the 300.

What needs to happen is that the signal level out of the 300 is far enough above its noise level output to have a good ratio, but not so hot that it clips the input on the 400!

If you have a low impedance to high impedance Mic transformer I guess you can plug that into the monitor out of the 300 first to know down the hot signal and not clip the 400s input.

The only thing is you will then need a Mic cable (XLR type) with a 1/4" on one end wired to unbalance that end of the cable to use to get you plugged into the 400.

The grounding of all 3 amps may be a hum issue also if all 3 amps have not been wired for a 3 prong ac cord.
If they have you will need to get 2 ground lift adapters of the type that have two of the small blades so that if need be you can spin them around in the socket to get the lesser amount of hum possible!

Under stand what I am saying here, with 3 amps all plugged into one another, only one of them needs to have the ground plugged into a socket, got it?

[Updated on: Thu, 11 September 2014 11:33]

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Re: Kustom 101 for Dummies [message #21433 is a reply to message #21429]

Thu, 11 September 2014 14:28

Iowa Boy
Messages: 767
Registered: June 2014

Senior Member

Well hoping this will all work like you say.

Got an email today from the guy with the 300.......will check it out this weekend to make sure all inputs still work.

Looks like I'll be shopping for another set of speakers again. My girlfriend is going to kill me!

Thanks again buddy for all the help.......you sound like a Coors kind of guy to me. Smile

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Re: Kustom 101 for Dummies [message #21434 is a reply to message #21429]

Thu, 11 September 2014 15:17

stevem
Messages: 4733
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

Geez, you owe me a whole Keg by now Bro! Lol!

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Re: Kustom 101 for Dummies [message #21435 is a reply to message #21429]

Thu, 11 September 2014 17:29

Iowa Boy
Messages: 767
Registered: June 2014

Senior Member

Ya man I definitely do! Just need to know where to send it. NY is a pretty big place as I am told. All we got is corn and nervous sheep.....lol.

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Re: Kustom 101 for Dummies [message #21436 is a reply to message #21435]

Thu, 11 September 2014 22:24

pleat
Messages: 1452
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi

Senior Member

Wow a lot of time has been spent on how to wire all these amps together.
If you own the K300-5, I would take the monitor out and rather than use a channel input from the K400 amp. I would install some power amp input jacks on the back of the K400 bypassing all channels. Then all signals from the K300 pre-amps and master controls will control the all the amps. Then you have 150 watts rms into 4 ohms of the K300 and 100 watts rms into a 4 ohm load X 2 of the K400 amp.

If you haven't bought the K300 yet, I'd consider just springing for the K600 and forget the K300. The K600 you have two 150 watt rms into 4 ohms each amp inside of the K600 housing. 300 watts rms.

The K300 is 150 watts and the K400 is 200 watts, so you'd have 350 watts and all the wiring nightmare.

The one thing that hasn't been considered is exactly what cabinets will be used on each of the three available power amps?

Regardless of how much wattage a speaker will handle, the design of the cabinet have a lot to do with how far a speaker cab will project sound. Speaker cabinets have an acoustic output wattage, for every watt fed to the speaker cabinet.
The EV TL806 series is a single 15" bass cab has about 4.5 acoustic watts output for ever 100 watts input, and that is a very efficent bass cab. Mixing speaker cabs with horns and paper speaker columns will have different frequency responses. I think your going to end up hauling a bunch of different Kustom cabs with poor results.
pleat

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Re: Kustom 101 for Dummies [message #21438 is a reply to message #21429]

Thu, 11 September 2014 22:46

Iowa Boy
Messages: 767
Registered: June 2014

Senior Member

Thanks for raining on my parade. Your idea does sound good about the rewire, but not sure that I am smart enough to be able to do it. You'd have to talk me thru it.

Money is an issue here. I can get the 300 for $100, almost $700 for the 600.

As to the speakers, I thought my 2 D-130F cabinets were close enough to the original Kustom Pa cabinets in design. Was looking at another set of cabinets with 2-15's and a horn where the 3rd speaker would be. Was hoping these cabinet were all similar to the original package offered by Kustom.

Your thoughts please?

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Re: Kustom 101 for Dummies [message #21439 is a reply to message #21438]

Thu, 11 September 2014 22:55

pleat
Messages: 1452
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi

Senior Member

Didn't really mean to rain on any parade, but thought I'd toss my 2 cents in. Wiring the K400 head is rather simple. I think Steve or ChicagoBill can walk you through the wiring process. It's just a matter of inserting a 1/4" switching jack in the audio wire that feeds the power amps and disconnects the pre amps.
pleat

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Re: Kustom 101 for Dummies [message #21442 is a reply to message #21429]

Fri, 12 September 2014 00:06

Iowa Boy
Messages: 767
Registered: June 2014

Senior Member

Well if I do buy the 300, I think this would be the most practical way to run the two amps together. Stevem way is easier, but could see how there might be problems with getting a balance sound. This sounds more like the way amps were bridged in the old days......at least it does ring a bell now that you mentioned how to do this. I would still use two sets of speakers for both amps right?

Appreciate your input on this. Quack, quack.

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Re: Kustom 101 for Dummies [message #21443 is a reply to message #21429]

Fri, 12 September 2014 06:20

stevem
Messages: 4733
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY

Senior Member

I was going to propose this method of sending signal into the 400 as it will really help with the his level as you will be bypassing the unneeded preamp stages,but it does men that you need to drill two holes in the rear of the for the needed 1/4" switching jacks which will drop the resale value of the amp if that matters to you?
If you can solder and drill holes, then Bill or myself can walk you thru this mod.

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Re: Kustom 101 for Dummies [message #21446 is a reply to message #21429]

Fri, 12 September 2014 11:23

Iowa Boy
Messages: 767
Registered: June 2014

Senior Member

I think I could come up with a way to run jacks out of the back of the amp without drilling holes in it.

Guess we will cross that bridge if and when I buy this amp. At least now I know how we can use the amps together. Big thank you to you and Pleat for all the advice. Will let you know if I buy the amp or not. Waiting to hear back if all the inputs still work or not.

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