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2J + 1H cabinet ? [message #21517] Thu, 25 September 2014 13:28 Go to next message
Iowa Boy is currently offline  Iowa Boy
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Just picked up two cabinets last night. The (2) 15 inch Jensen's are gone in each cabinet but the sirens are still there. The cabinet is straight and not slanted. It says Jensen on the speaker jack and nothing more. Kustom logo says by Ross. Was this originally a PA cabinet or a guitar cabinet? I looked at the literature section but those cabinets all look to be slanted.

What can you tell me about the sirens....I know they are for high frequency but what were the spec's on these and are they as efficient as my H 811B horns that I have for the other set of PA cabinets?

Handles are literally gone, hardware and all, so if anyone has two pair's of handles to sell, I'm in the market. Thanks.

[Updated on: Thu, 25 September 2014 13:30]

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Re: 2J + 1H cabinet ? [message #21523 is a reply to message #21517] Thu, 25 September 2014 23:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stevem is currently offline  stevem
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Those are very odd cabinets to my mind!
Having Ross logos on a non slant cabinet does not seem right as does the sirens !
The Jensen driver on those sirens can not compare to the Altec 811 drivers by a long shot!

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Re: 2J + 1H cabinet ? [message #21525 is a reply to message #21517] Thu, 25 September 2014 23:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Iowa Boy is currently offline  Iowa Boy
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So it sounds like I might have a Heintz 57 cabinet then. So guessing that since it has the sirens, it was probably then a guitar speaker and not a PA like the guy I bought them from thought they were. He bought a package deal....only wanted the guitars but had to buy everything else to get them.

Well it they are nothing close to the horns, then I can't use them. What do you think they are worth? Looks like I'll be buying 6 more Delta's again.

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Re: 2J + 1H cabinet ? [message #21526 is a reply to message #21517] Fri, 26 September 2014 06:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stevem is currently offline  stevem
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No, not so!
If you look in literature section you will see a K200B-5 pa with the siren cabinets dressed in silver and then if you scroll down more you will see a 400 pa head with those same cabinets in silver, and like I posted before those being straight front cabinets should have the Atec style black sectoral horn, not the siren unless there is a very low production transition model out there, but than those early Ross logos blow that notion to hell!

[Updated on: Fri, 26 September 2014 06:55]

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Re: 2J + 1H cabinet ? [message #21534 is a reply to message #21517] Fri, 26 September 2014 11:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Iowa Boy is currently offline  Iowa Boy
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I thought that the Jensen speakers were primarily used for guitar cabinets? Doesn't sound like Kustom was to consistent on building their cabinets. What ever was laying around that day, was put into a cabinet.

The only thing for certain that we know is that they definitely were not bass cabinets. lol.

Question still remains, what are these siren's worth? I have no use for them now and can use the money for the 6 Delta's and two more horns that I now need.

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Re: 2J + 1H cabinet ? [message #21537 is a reply to message #21517] Fri, 26 September 2014 12:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Iowa Boy is currently offline  Iowa Boy
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I just got done checking ebay and found a cabinet exactly like the two I bought. Kustom tag by Ross and has 3 Jensens in it not a siren. Thinking now that maybe someone added the sirens and they were not original from the factory. Does that sound possible? Do the sirens have a date code stamped on them anywhere. Wished the original speakers were in the cabinet.

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Re: 2J + 1H cabinet ? [message #21538 is a reply to message #21517] Fri, 26 September 2014 12:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stevem is currently offline  stevem
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That is what it sounds like to me, someone may have added the sirens, but that being said those Jensen C15L speakers have been used in Hammond Leslie as the woffer!

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Re: 2J + 1H cabinet ? [message #21541 is a reply to message #21517] Fri, 26 September 2014 13:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Iowa Boy is currently offline  Iowa Boy
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You'd make a great politician.........I getting dizzy from running in circle lol. You surely have some idea what these sirens are worth. I certainly don't have a clue. Is there even a market for these?

[Updated on: Fri, 26 September 2014 13:30]

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Re: 2J + 1H cabinet ? [message #21657 is a reply to message #21541] Sun, 05 October 2014 15:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kustom_Bart is currently offline  Kustom_Bart
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It just depends on what someone is willing to pay, I have bought them for as low as 30.00 ea and as high as 65.00 for one, but they had the Altec drivers on them. Since I use my 2 x 15 + siren Altec cabs for PA mains I keep 2 siren horns on hand, if nothing else just for the drivers.

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Re: 2J + 1H cabinet ? [message #21659 is a reply to message #21517] Sun, 05 October 2014 23:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Iowa Boy is currently offline  Iowa Boy
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Now your talking about the round Kustom sirens aren't you? I went out and looked at the drivers on my sirens and there are not markings what so ever on the drivers or the sirens. In fact tried to take the driver off...bolt in the center of driver....and cap didn't come off. Tried to unscrew driver from siren and the whole center hub of front of siren spins. Looks like I will have to pull the siren from the cabinet now. Anyone have any idea what the frequency response was on these things. Stevem says that they are no where even close to the Altec horns that I have but was just wondering.

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Re: 2J + 1H cabinet ? [message #21691 is a reply to message #21659] Sat, 11 October 2014 02:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kustom_Bart is currently offline  Kustom_Bart
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Yes the round siren horns. You have to unscrew the front center piece to get them out. The bolt on the back is for a brace that is supposed to go across the back of the cab that screws to each side of the cab with 2 wood screws per side and that bolt goes through the brace into the horn to keep the aluminum horn from bending from the weight of the driver.

[Updated on: Sat, 11 October 2014 02:47]

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Re: 2J + 1H cabinet ? [message #21697 is a reply to message #21517] Sat, 11 October 2014 10:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Iowa Boy is currently offline  Iowa Boy
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Thanks for letting me know how they come apart. Nope, there is no indication that any brace was ever installed in these two cabinets.

Still waiting for someone to tell me about the spec's on these drivers, or at least where I can go to look it up. Like I posted before, there is no numbers or anything stamped on the sirens or the drivers.

Another thing that I noticed is that on the back panel, two support 1 X 2's were placed attached to the back exactly where the screws should have screwed into the support brackets inside the speaker cabinet. Needless to say, those screws were not holding the center of the back panel like they were suppose to. And crazy thing is that the support braces are there......and no screw holes in them. Maybe its just me, but there didn't seem to be much consistency or quality control at Kustom back in the day. I am totally amazed that the company did as well as it did during that short time all things considering. Reminds me a lot of how things are put together now.....parts from China, assembled in someone's garage down in Mexico. Thank God that someone did know how to design and build amplifiers.......45 years and still playing proves that!

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Re: 2J + 1H cabinet ? [message #21699 is a reply to message #21697] Sat, 11 October 2014 11:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kustom_Bart is currently offline  Kustom_Bart
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I actually took a brace from Pleat and had my buddys fab shop bend me up 6 of them so I would have them for my siren cabs and any future cabs I may receive. I just had to drill the holes and marked them out from Pleat's and they worked great. Pleat may know or have some info on the driver itself.

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Re: 2J + 1H cabinet ? [message #21701 is a reply to message #21517] Sat, 11 October 2014 15:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Iowa Boy is currently offline  Iowa Boy
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Making a brace won't be difficult. I know enough about sheet metal since I am an HVAC and have some of the equipment needed to do bends. So, in the event I do decide to keep them, I will make sure that they are braced like they were suppose to be.

Yeah, I hope Pleat or someone can come up with the spec's on these sirens. I haven't seen these very often so I'd kind of like to know if they're worth keeping or not.

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Re: 2J + 1H cabinet ? [message #21702 is a reply to message #21697] Sat, 11 October 2014 18:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pleat is currently offline  pleat
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I am confused on what we are talking about. One siren horn in a cabinet that houses two more 15" speakers, or one siren horn in a cab that will house one 15" speaker.
Are we trying to preserve the originally of the cab, or change it to suit your needs?

The Drivers on the early siren horn are Atlas Sound PD-5VH 40 watt 16 ohm. Klipsch also used the same driver as a K55-V.

Later era drivers were EV 1823M 60 watt drivers and are usually found as a finned round driver on the Altec horn flairs of the slant metal face era PA and guitar cabs.

I don't know the low cut off or high cut off point of the siren horn is, but I'd be more concerned as to where it starts to pick up. 800 Hz. to 1K Hz. is where most horns start and 14.5K is about tops. The siren horn is as Kustom advertised A high power police siren horn. The siren horn will not distinguish from horizontal and vertical throw, like a 40x120 degree rectangular will disperse a more controlled pattern.

I would not be surprised at any kustom cabinet I open. 45+ years, there could be missing braces or siren horns replaced with a speaker.

There is a book I'd recommend to purchase. The Practical Guide for Concert Sound by Bob Heil. It's availible direct from Heil Sound 618-257-3000 It's an older book but covers speaker cabinets, horns and drivers, power amps, proper stacking of cabs and horns. Balance and unbalance cables etc. Great photo of a pa system for a 10,000 seat arena that kicks out 118dB at 10' with only 500 watts per side.

pleat

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Re: 2J + 1H cabinet ? [message #21705 is a reply to message #21517] Sun, 12 October 2014 12:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Iowa Boy is currently offline  Iowa Boy
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Thanks Pleat for the info. Sounds to me like these sirens were a better application for guitar than PA's. Stevem said that they come no where close to the response of my Altec horns.

These cabinets will not be restored to original since we don't know what they were originally. Straight cabinet, 3-15's with top being a siren, Kustom by Ross, no info on speaker input jack, no speakers in the cabinet......I am inclined to believe that maybe this originally was a bass cabinet that someone modified with the siren since there was never a bracket to support the sirens installed.

My intent is to load the cabinets with Delta's like my (2) D-130's, if the sirens don't work or not acceptable sound wise, will added 2 more additional Delta's and then get another set of Altec horns. This will all be powered by 2 amps like talked about in a different thread.

Thanks also about the book you suggested, just hope its not over my head. Have been looking for my old text books on transistors and solid state circuitry but afraid I tossed them years ago......go figure, never thought I'd ever use them and now need them!

Not even sure if sirens work or not since I never have tested them yet. Guy I bought the cabinets from said they did, but wonder whether he tested it or not since the speakers are gone and he only wanted the guitars and the speakers were a package deal. He thought that these were part of a PA system, but not sure. Any thoughts here?

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Re: 2J + 1H cabinet ? [message #21706 is a reply to message #21517] Sun, 12 October 2014 14:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stevem is currently offline  stevem
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Are the crossover caps still in the wiring harness?

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Re: 2J + 1H cabinet ? [message #21708 is a reply to message #21705] Sun, 12 October 2014 19:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pleat is currently offline  pleat
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You mentioned "Straight cabinet, 3-15's with top being a siren, Kustom by Ross" cabinet. I think a straight cabinet would be one with no taper from top to bottom when looking at the side of the cabinet. If that is the case, then it would have been from the 71/72 or newer slant metal face amp will have the silver threads in the grill cloth. I've had straight cabs that I though had the older all black grill cloth until I removed the logo or a port tube.

You mentioned that the logo is kustom by ross. would place it between 67 and mid/late 1968 and will have a taper to the cab when looking at it from the side. Just because it appears that it never a bracket to support the horn driver does not mean that it didn't come from factory with a siren horn.

Like I've said may times, finding a 40 year + cabinet does not mean it's never been tampered with or changed out.

My band is using a pair of the early 3x15 siren cabs with the 3" port holes in baffle board rather than the 4" aluminum port tubes.

It just takes a little extra care in EQ'ing the system. We are old school rockers with modern subs and power amps. I have a pair of the Altec 215+H PA cabs and I prefer the sound of my cabs, but as long as the bass player wants to use his 3x15 siren cabs, thats fine with me, I'll keep mine near mint.

The PA book I recommended is old school, but as you read you will see how series/parallel wiring matching cabs will give you natural increases in sound pressure without having to double the power amps.

pleat

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Re: 2J + 1H cabinet ? [message #21713 is a reply to message #21517] Tue, 14 October 2014 22:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Iowa Boy is currently offline  Iowa Boy
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Stevem...............yes cap is still in the wiring harness.

Sounds like this is definitely a modified cabinet from what Pleat has said.....is definitely straight on the sides....or at least doesn't have the slant like my D-130's do. Grill cloth is black and no silver threads. Looks to be original because it does have a couple of small tears in it. Ports are 4 inch plastic.

Regardless what it was, will make a good addition to my PA system when I get it put back together again.

If I do decide to keep the sirens, what crossover would you recommend using in place of the cap. Would it also need an L- Pad like I used on the Altec horns?

[Updated on: Tue, 14 October 2014 22:57]

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Re: 2J + 1H cabinet ? [message #21714 is a reply to message #21517] Wed, 15 October 2014 06:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stevem is currently offline  stevem
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I did a search and did not find where anyone makes a passive crossover for a 16 ohm driver like is used with those 2-15" cabinets!
Since it looks like you are stuck with that stock set up if you do not want to go yo a electronic type crossover I would at least up grade that crossover cap in those cabinets.

If you go to parts express order one of there part number 027-724 cap ,this is a great film and foil type cap and it's 2uf value so it will crossover the horn a bit higher which will keep more mids in the speakers and help the horn driver to live a longer life!

[Updated on: Wed, 15 October 2014 06:28]

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Re: 2J + 1H cabinet ? [message #21720 is a reply to message #21517] Wed, 15 October 2014 11:37 Go to previous message
Iowa Boy is currently offline  Iowa Boy
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Thanks for the research on the siren. I'll check them out this weekend to see if they still work or not. I f they do, I'll order the new caps like you suggested.

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