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New to me K-250-4 [message #23315] Wed, 08 July 2015 13:12 Go to next message
slk854 is currently offline  slk854
Messages: 192
Registered: January 2015
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Ok guys I know these will most likely bore you as you have seen many before, but this is my first K-250-4. I brought it to Sunnheads house yesterday and we gave it a good working out and determined it would be a keeper. I bought it from GC out of state and it was shipped to me. It being marked vintage I only had 72 hours to decide if I wanted to keep it or not. Well the reverb did not work so I posted here about it and everyone was supper helpful to help me determine what could be wrong. It is in another post so I will not bore you with details but the amp is fully functional now. I took it apart today and did some detoxit work on all the molex connectors and pots. Cleaned as much crud off of it, and here it is in all it's glory (that is if ya like the metal face amps)....

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc434/hunter12407/004_zpsmpfi6omx.jpg

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc434/hunter12407/002_zpsxbwidyfm.jpg

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc434/hunter12407/001_zpslfh6pfpe.jpg

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23318 is a reply to message #23315] Wed, 08 July 2015 15:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
chicagobill
Messages: 2005
Registered: April 2003
Senior Member
That's a real beauty!

I think that every new series of Kustom amps added a little bit to the sound, and the metal fronts really got the FX right. I always liked the separate trem and vib controls and the tone control for the reverb.

Congrats!

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23319 is a reply to message #23315] Wed, 08 July 2015 15:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Iowa Boy is currently offline  Iowa Boy
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Looks sharp! The Silver is even still silver, not cat peep yellow. You made a good call. Enjoy your new baby.

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23320 is a reply to message #23319] Wed, 08 July 2015 16:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pleat is currently offline  pleat
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Actually it's charcoal. But a great looking amp for sure. You found a keeper.
pleat

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23324 is a reply to message #23315] Wed, 08 July 2015 16:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slk854 is currently offline  slk854
Messages: 192
Registered: January 2015
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Charcoal it is. The sun made it look lighter.. Now the game is a foot once more for the right color speaker cab. The fun starts......

The crazy thing is the GC that had it also had the speakers...They sold them separate from the amp 2 days before I saw it..

Steve

[Updated on: Wed, 08 July 2015 16:43]

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23328 is a reply to message #23324] Wed, 08 July 2015 21:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
oren hudson is currently offline  oren hudson
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I'm with the others - very nice. I have the 150 version with original matching cab. Super sound and effects. I've used for keyboard and guitar. Great with both. With the vibrato, gave a real nice Leslie sound to the keyboard.

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23330 is a reply to message #23315] Thu, 09 July 2015 09:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slk854 is currently offline  slk854
Messages: 192
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Ok quick question...Has anyone ever seen a 2-15" + 1 horn speaker cab in charcoal? I have looked at most every place on the net for pictures of these and have never seen any other than black in that configuration.

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23331 is a reply to message #23315] Thu, 09 July 2015 09:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stevem is currently offline  stevem
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In person I have , but in regards to the stuff on this site if you go from the 150/250/500 series listing and then click on other T&C to get to the PA listings you can then see one in silver .

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23332 is a reply to message #23315] Thu, 09 July 2015 09:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slk854 is currently offline  slk854
Messages: 192
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Well that give me hope that they are out there

Steve

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23334 is a reply to message #23315] Thu, 09 July 2015 12:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Iowa Boy is currently offline  Iowa Boy
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Chances are if anyone has one they won't part with it till they die. You'll have better luck finding a black one.....seems to be the most common in all the Kustom stuff unfortunately. You can always get it recovered, and if by accident you did find a charcoal one, chances are it will not match your head.......be more of a sea weed green like two of my cabinets. But who knows, you might luck out again like you did on the amp head.

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23341 is a reply to message #23334] Thu, 09 July 2015 14:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pleat is currently offline  pleat
Messages: 1452
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Location: Belding, Mi
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Well, timing is everything in hunting Kustoms. According to Bud, Kustom sales were 55% PA systems, Guitar amps were 20% and Bass amps were 25%.
Black was over 50% followed by Charcoal, Silver, Blue, Red, Gold and Cascade.

Looking for a 215+H cabinet to match the charcoal head. There are two versions. The guitar cabinet is 46" tall and the PA cabinet is 56" tall disregarding the casters. Both guitar and PA cabinet could be purchased with KEI, JBL D130F or the Altec 418 speakers. I own a pair of the Altec 215+H PA cabs in black with original covers. I know a collector in SC that has a pair of really nice charcoal KEI 215+H PA cabs.
So if your not fussy as to height, that makes the hunt a little easier.

pleat

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23353 is a reply to message #23315] Fri, 10 July 2015 00:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Iowa Boy is currently offline  Iowa Boy
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Proportionally, the shorter cabinet looks the best with the amp sitting on top of it. But just my opinion.

Thank Pleat for the figures......now I know why there is so many PA amp heads out there and fewer guitar heads. Didn't know Kustom actually made their equipment in gold.....thought that was just yellowed out silver. Guess if I hadn't pulled one of the handles off of my amp and saw the silver under it, it could have passed for gold.

[Updated on: Fri, 10 July 2015 00:57]

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23355 is a reply to message #23353] Fri, 10 July 2015 11:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pleat is currently offline  pleat
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Location: Belding, Mi
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I have a yellowed out silver that is so evenly yellowed that side by side with a real gold looks like twins. Most times the silver will yellow in different hues, and almost brown in the corners. Still trying to figure out photo bucket to post photos. I think there are my photo's on this site somewhere.
I think it will be easier to find a pair of the tall 215+H cabs rather than the shorter 215+H cabs. Although, I know two collectors in my area that have the shorter horn cabs in black. One of the cabs has the power module in it. Part of the K500-4 set up. That amp will break glass with a Firebird or Tele. Since the PA systems were the best sellers, tall cabs should be easier to find and not have to worry about a shorter cab that may have the power module.

You will notice in the slant face K250 guitar and PA catalogs, there are no amps pictured in Gold or Red. The guitar catalog does mention that the amps are ava. in 6 basic colors. Not sure what colors were deleted, but at that time kustom offered two types of Black, standard black we all know and the Kool black that looks wet and shiny. I have a photo of the factory when I was there in 1972 showing the amp head cases. Tons of silver heads, some red and some gold, so for some time kustom did offer the seven colors and the Kool black material.
pleat

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23356 is a reply to message #23315] Fri, 10 July 2015 11:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kustom_Bart is currently offline  Kustom_Bart
Messages: 601
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Here is the Kustom color pallette

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c176/bketner/Music%20Equipment/rosscolorchart_zps337224a3.jpg

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23357 is a reply to message #23315] Fri, 10 July 2015 11:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kustom_Bart is currently offline  Kustom_Bart
Messages: 601
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Here is my Silver K200 as well to give you a reference between charcoal and silver.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c176/bketner/Music%20Equipment/DSCN6853_zpsdb674efe.jpg

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23358 is a reply to message #23315] Fri, 10 July 2015 12:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kustom_Bart is currently offline  Kustom_Bart
Messages: 601
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Here is a real gold as well

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c176/bketner/Music%20Equipment/GoldK50_zps8c7023ac.jpg

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23359 is a reply to message #23315] Fri, 10 July 2015 20:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slk854 is currently offline  slk854
Messages: 192
Registered: January 2015
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I brought this home today to be my doner cab. It is that wet look black. But the question is what do I have inside. For all practical purposes we were thinking there was no horn driver in the cab as it had foam rubber crammed in the little hole from the outside. Surprise!!!!So can you guys tell me what kind of 15" speakers are in this thing???

Steve

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc434/hunter12407/004_zpszptclxiq.jpg

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc434/hunter12407/003_zps3vgchybi.jpg

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc434/hunter12407/002_zpsrsnhjm9e.jpg

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc434/hunter12407/001_zpsik2kdvlm.jpg

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23360 is a reply to message #23315] Fri, 10 July 2015 21:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
chicagobill
Messages: 2005
Registered: April 2003
Senior Member
The speakers are Jensen P15Ls. I can't quite read the date codes 22068??.

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23361 is a reply to message #23359] Fri, 10 July 2015 21:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pleat is currently offline  pleat
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Location: Belding, Mi
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The horn driver is Electro Voice 402. The speakers are Jensen P15L. The odd part is the Jensen's look just like the early Jensen speakers Kustom used in the 2x15 and 3x15 cabinets from the 66-67 era. Just missing the Jensen stickers on the back of the magnets.

I see there is no crossover capacitor between the horn and the speakers, so the horn is unprotected from low frequencies. I wouldn't play the cab with the horn connected until you can get a crossover of some type to protect it from further damage.
pleat

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23362 is a reply to message #23356] Fri, 10 July 2015 21:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pleat is currently offline  pleat
Messages: 1452
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The color sample chart is from the 60's showing the original 7 colors. I never bothered to ask Bud if he knew what colors were dropped in the slant metal face amps before the company went to the hard tolex covered amps in the fall of 74.
pleat

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23363 is a reply to message #23362] Fri, 10 July 2015 21:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pleat is currently offline  pleat
Messages: 1452
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Location: Belding, Mi
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Since the Jensen speakers are not original to that cabinet, I'd check to see what the impedance of each speaker is. If each speaker is 16 ohms, then you would have an 8 ohm cabinet. Is there a Kustom logo ink or paint stamp on the frame of the speakers?
pleat

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23364 is a reply to message #23315] Fri, 10 July 2015 22:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slk854 is currently offline  slk854
Messages: 192
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I will check out the speakers closer tomorrow. I drove 3 hours to pick up that rig. Yes the amp came with it. Two hours to my property up north to cut 3 acres of grass up front by the cabin. I was going to cut the trails on the back 80 acres, but just ran out of time, and two hours from there back home. I am beat. I will report what I find in the morning.

Thank you guys so much for all the help thus far. It is greatly appreciated

Steve

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23366 is a reply to message #23315] Sat, 11 July 2015 06:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stevem is currently offline  stevem
Messages: 4733
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Yup, those big Alinco magnet Jensens are not original to the cabinet as they have a date code of 1965, that being said they are worth a bunch of money as the new P15n models are the top of the line now and go for over 200 bucks , and you have the P15L model that they do not even make any more and are a even better speaker!!!!
The L model was the top of the line back in Jensen's glory days!
If they where not out of very early Frank K 200 model then they where out of a Lesile cabinet which either way would make them 16 ohm models.

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23367 is a reply to message #23366] Sat, 11 July 2015 08:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pleat is currently offline  pleat
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After a good nights sleep, I think I may be wrong on the horn driver not having a crossover capacitor. It is actually mounted at the horn terminals.
pleat

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23368 is a reply to message #23315] Sat, 11 July 2015 11:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slk854 is currently offline  slk854
Messages: 192
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Ok guys I am wide awake today and I must be the luckiest person for Sat.the 11th... I found the reverb issue. One little green wire had come off the a/v port jack, as pictured below. Soldered it back and it is now working like a champ. Matter of fact the entire amp is working as it should. All effects are functional.

Let me give you a little history on this amp, because I know you are wondering just what the heck I am doing. This is the same amp that I posted about back in the winter. Yep the one I went to look at in -2 weather in a snow storm. Upon arriving at his place it was in an un-heated porch. The reverb did not work. There was no sound coming from the horn (foam rubber stuffed in it like the driver was not there). The effects did not work all that well. We did have a crappy guitar connected, but not too much volume/tone. This is the one he listed on ebay for $1000.00, and had no takers. He was honest about the problems it was having. Very nice person, but he did not want to spend the time to figure out what was going on with the amp. The day I went to his house I was prepared to pay $500.00 but after seeing the problems and having to look at it in -2 I walked away. I called Sunnhead and we decided to just wait and see what came up as the year progressed. Nothing till last week when the charcoal one came up at GC. I bought it. Now my brain was ticking loud and clear. I remembered the one I went to look at in the cold. I did not have his email address, only an old craigslist listing. I took a chance and replied back to an old reply. He answered to my surprise. He said he still had it, and said I could have it for $500. Well that was not going to happen. I offered him $250.00. He countered with $400.00. I countered with $300.00 and we agreed on that price. Heck guys I really wanted it for the speaker cab and matching head cab. Ya know how you want something bad. Well I took a chance that I could fix the amp, and I was going to resell it. I took a chance that the 15" speakers were ok and not damaged. Well now I am flabbergasted that the thing is working as it should. I just serenaded the neighborhood with Long Train Running by the Dobbies. I think it passed the test.

Now before I put those 10,000 screws back in is there anything I should tidy up in the speaker cab????

Steve


http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc434/hunter12407/001_zpsyptpc705.jpg

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23370 is a reply to message #23368] Sat, 11 July 2015 12:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pleat is currently offline  pleat
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Location: Belding, Mi
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Sounds like you got a great deal. Is the head that came with the cabinet also a K250-4 or a K250-2? I would double check to make sure the horn driver has the crossover cap. I always remove the baffle board and head to the car wash to power wash any dirt and dried up beer stains. It really brings back the shine of the silver threads in the grill cloth. Also gives me the time to re install the baffle board, making sure all the nuts are tight on the speakers and the baffle board bolts.
pleat

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23373 is a reply to message #23315] Sat, 11 July 2015 13:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slk854 is currently offline  slk854
Messages: 192
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Yes it is a k250-4

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc434/hunter12407/003_zps4ujyxxxc.jpg

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc434/hunter12407/002_zpsh1fevvsc.jpg

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23375 is a reply to message #23315] Sat, 11 July 2015 14:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pleat is currently offline  pleat
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Location: Belding, Mi
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Steve, the T&R looks great. If it were me, I'd remove the speakers, horn, logo and ports take the baffle board to the car wash and power wash and rinse. That's just me, way too much time on my hands, as long as the back panel is off.
pleat

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23376 is a reply to message #23315] Sat, 11 July 2015 16:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slk854 is currently offline  slk854
Messages: 192
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I took the beast apart and mixed up some dawn detergent and sprayed the grill cloth down really good with my pressure washer and then rinsed it really good, and the dirt just poured off.

The cap was on the horn driver also

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc434/hunter12407/004_zps3ugx7s6f.jpg

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23377 is a reply to message #23315] Sat, 11 July 2015 18:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slk854 is currently offline  slk854
Messages: 192
Registered: January 2015
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well guys here are some shots of the cab all cleaned up. I took Don's advice and and pressure washed the thing. Don't ask...Yes I did remove the speakers, and grill board. It is inside the house now...

Thanks much for everyone's advice
Steve

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc434/hunter12407/005_zpskgg76dtk.jpg

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc434/hunter12407/006_zpsvemcnmml.jpg

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc434/hunter12407/007_zpsatipgrpr.jpg

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc434/hunter12407/008_zpsvqmrr1qs.jpg

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23378 is a reply to message #23377] Sat, 11 July 2015 18:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pleat is currently offline  pleat
Messages: 1452
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Location: Belding, Mi
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Steve, it looks like it just popped out of a catalog. Hope you felt that power washing the grill was worth the effort. Night and day difference in appearance for sure. pleat

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23379 is a reply to message #23315] Sat, 11 July 2015 21:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slk854 is currently offline  slk854
Messages: 192
Registered: January 2015
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Now I have to decide what to do with the charcoal one. I am thinking keep it and look for a charcoal cab in any speaker configuration that originally went with the amp. Perhaps the 4-12" cab. That might be easier to find than the 2-15 + horn.

Steve

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23380 is a reply to message #23379] Sat, 11 July 2015 22:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pleat is currently offline  pleat
Messages: 1452
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi
Senior Member
Do both 250-4 heads have the 6 pin XLR plug for the lighted effects pedal? I think finding a 2x15 cabinet in charcoal would be a lot easier than a 215+H cabinet. You could always find a 2x15 cabinet and remove the top speaker and install a siren horn if the horn is important to have. Did you check the speaker inpedance when the cabinet was apart?
pleat

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23381 is a reply to message #23315] Sat, 11 July 2015 22:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slk854 is currently offline  slk854
Messages: 192
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If I did it right it was reading 6.40 or so on each 15" speaker, which is about right for an 8 ohm speaker. You should be able to put the meter on ohms and read between the red and black connections on the speaker with no power . Let me know if there is another way that is more accurate.....Both heads do have the XLR connector

Steve

[Updated on: Sat, 11 July 2015 22:42]

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23382 is a reply to message #23315] Sun, 12 July 2015 07:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stevem is currently offline  stevem
Messages: 4733
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY
Senior Member
When you get the chance I would replace that crossover cap with a Parts express 027-428 cap.
Your original cap has a manufacture date stamp of 1972 and when they go leaky due to age they will pass instead of block low frequencys and the horn driver will blow!

Those reverb pan wires breaking off is why I place a blob of silicone sealer right the solder connection point.
Even though the pans have a fold over strain relef it's not enough with age to keep that from taking place otherwise.
Also place a dab on the coils where the wires enter them, as that's the end that can not be repaired if the snap off or pull out!

[Updated on: Sun, 12 July 2015 07:46]

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23383 is a reply to message #23315] Sun, 12 July 2015 08:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slk854 is currently offline  slk854
Messages: 192
Registered: January 2015
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I will get one ordered, and will take the reverb out and put a dab of silicone on those small wires. I guess I will do that on both of my 250's. Better to be safe...

Isn't there a way to check the impedance of the entire cab by putting the meter on a 1/4 input plug that is plugged into the cab????When I took the entire cab apart yesterday to clean it I checked each speaker by it's self and I was getting a reading of 6.30 or .40 I am assuming that should mean it was an 8 ohm speaker, but I am no expert for sure. Did those big Jensens come as 8 ohms????

Steve

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23409 is a reply to message #23315] Mon, 13 July 2015 01:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kustom_Bart is currently offline  Kustom_Bart
Messages: 601
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Location: Greenville, MichiGUN
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I have a pair of cabs just like that near mint with covers and everything. They are great for a PA, but I hate it with a guitar with the horn hooked up, just to high shirlly with the horn. You will have to try it out and see what you think for yourself. I was going to pack them with altecs, but I am one altec 418 (16 ohm) short of doing it.

Yours sure turned out very nice! Mine are the regular black.

[Updated on: Mon, 13 July 2015 01:31]

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23410 is a reply to message #23383] Mon, 13 July 2015 06:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stevem is currently offline  stevem
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Yes, any meter reading above 4 ohms but less than 8 is a 8 ohm impedance driver.

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23413 is a reply to message #23315] Mon, 13 July 2015 09:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slk854 is currently offline  slk854
Messages: 192
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Ok I took the back of once more, because my curiosity got the best of me. I rechecked each 15" speaker and both were reading around 6.30 ohms. So I am going to assume that these Jensen's will be just fine for the 250 ( not correct for originality ) but useable until I can a pair of correct ones. Now all kidding aside these do sound great. I do like the look of the silver dust caps on the speakers though..

I do want to tidy up the crappy job of speaker wiring that someone once did inside there. It is all soldered, but a lousy job. What gauge speaker wire is recommended for the inside???????

Thank you for all of the great comments. I am learning here. Ya know you say this is the last amp I really need but then the itch starts once more, and you think what else would be cool to have.

Steve

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Re: New to me K-250-4 [message #23416 is a reply to message #23315] Mon, 13 July 2015 12:16 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
chicagobill
Messages: 2005
Registered: April 2003
Senior Member
When you read the resistance on each of the speakers, were they still wired together? They need to be unhooked in order to find out what the resistance of each speaker is.

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