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Plastic handles [message #23418] Tue, 14 July 2015 09:00 Go to next message
slk854 is currently offline  slk854
Messages: 192
Registered: January 2015
Senior Member
Guys I am giving it some serious thought to purchase a plastic injection machine. I have access to CNC so the molds would not be a problem. I am just wondering how many black plastic handles would be needed to assure Kustom collectors a good supply. I am in the thinking stages right now so I have no idea what the raw plastic material cost would be? It would be much easier to find out who is making them already but that seams to be a dark secret.

Steve
Re: Plastic handles [message #23419 is a reply to message #23418] Tue, 14 July 2015 10:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Iowa Boy is currently offline  Iowa Boy
Messages: 767
Registered: June 2014
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Check earlier posting........think Conrad had a site listed that has replacement handles.
Re: Plastic handles [message #23420 is a reply to message #23418] Tue, 14 July 2015 11:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stevem is currently offline  stevem
Messages: 4571
Registered: June 2004
Location: NY
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Some thoughts would be that some late 50s to mid 60s Gibson amps use to come with near the same handle but in clear plastic, ( who made them here I do not know ) and the current owners of the Kustom name use to use them on the 1999 and up line of T&C amps , and these handles while just slightly different in foot print where made in China.
May be since they are not using these type of handles on there current line of amps you could pry the name of the manufacturer out of them and see if they are still making, or able to make them?

The biggest pain in the ass and time consumer about you doing a repo is to do it right the metal parts need to be sent out and chromed unless you start of with stainless!

[Updated on: Tue, 14 July 2015 11:30]

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Re: Plastic handles [message #23421 is a reply to message #23418] Tue, 14 July 2015 11:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kustom_Bart is currently offline  Kustom_Bart
Messages: 601
Registered: October 2010
Location: Greenville, MichiGUN
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Not worth it, as a 21 year mold maker and engineer, not enough demand and you can buy them cheap enough already. Here is the site. If you buy a bunch at once you can get a discount price too. Look half way down the page. They unscrew and screw directly into original handles and you can cut off the mounts that wont work and use your old mounts on the new straps. Also the insert has been redesigned so they last and bear the weight much better than the originals did. They work perfectly.

http://www.brettunsvillage.com/trunks/howto/parts/schandles. htm

[Updated on: Tue, 14 July 2015 11:57]

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Re: Plastic handles [message #23422 is a reply to message #23418] Tue, 14 July 2015 12:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slk854 is currently offline  slk854
Messages: 192
Registered: January 2015
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That site I do know about. I can afford the handles but to pay $16.00 a pair to get 2 pieces of useable plastic is kind of expensive. I do understand going that way may be the only way to go for now, but it doesn't mean you have to like it. I am sure most of you guys have researched this many times. I am just a newbie, so you will have to excuse my enthusiasm for the amps...

Steve
Re: Plastic handles [message #23423 is a reply to message #23418] Tue, 14 July 2015 13:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
carlc is currently offline  carlc
Messages: 138
Registered: July 2006
Location: Summerville, SC
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They are actually $15 each.
Re: Plastic handles [message #23424 is a reply to message #23418] Tue, 14 July 2015 13:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slk854 is currently offline  slk854
Messages: 192
Registered: January 2015
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I see that now. My mistake. I guess it was selective reading. Thought they said a pair. Wow that is even more expensive than I thought.

Steve
Re: Plastic handles [message #23425 is a reply to message #23424] Tue, 14 July 2015 14:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pleat is currently offline  pleat
Messages: 1434
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi
Senior Member
A fellow collector and myself found a guy who was going to do the insert in cast aluminum. I gave him a insert that he used to cast a few, but they were really rough. The main problem with plastic or aluminum inserts, it has to have the short extensions that keep the insert in place on the sides of the strap that go to the mounting plate. Once a plastic handle has lost or broken off the extensions, then the only thing holding the insert to the strap are the spiral nails or screws. That's when the plastic inserts can and do get broken off and the remaining stems from the handle are still attached to the strap. A large heavy cabinet will have inserts break the retaining extensions off and then disaster.

The handles from Brettens. I think it would be easier to make up a flat metal plate that has the same footprint (1- 5/8" by 3/4") about 1/8" thick. Drill the two mounting holes (same spacing as the original) and a third hole, in the center between the two original mounting holes. Use the supplied bolt from the Brettens handle to mount the handle to the center hole of the new plate and mount the new handle and plate back to the cabinet.
The only way to avoid breaking off the side extensions would be an aluminum insert on the heavy cabinets or a completely solid plastic insert and add two more mounting screws on each side of the metal strap.
pleat
Re: Plastic handles [message #23426 is a reply to message #23418] Tue, 14 July 2015 17:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Iowa Boy is currently offline  Iowa Boy
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Check Ebay under Kustom. There's a guy in Nashville who is making them out of hard wood and then paints them. Can't remember the price....they may be more but more durable than plastic.
Re: Plastic handles [message #23427 is a reply to message #23418] Tue, 14 July 2015 17:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slk854 is currently offline  slk854
Messages: 192
Registered: January 2015
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I could make them out of wood if I wanted to do that. I build furniture and have all of the duplicating machinery to make most anything. Walnut would be the best as it sands extremely smooth, and you don't see the grain.

Don you are right about the side reinforcement/keeper pieces on the sides. That is exactly what has happened to mine. They folded in, and the stud mounts broke off and all you have left is a hollow handle. I did a little experiment today though. I taped the broken plastic up really good to form a coffer type dam, and poured in polyester resin. I drilled the holes to mount it on the handle and it is there. Probably would not last too long in a gigging atmosphere but for the house it is ok. Naturally I will not leave it that way but was just playing around.

Steve
Re: Plastic handles [message #23428 is a reply to message #23427] Tue, 14 July 2015 17:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pleat is currently offline  pleat
Messages: 1434
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi
Senior Member
I've seen the wooden handles on eBay. The wood insert doesn't trap the side of the metal strap and would be prone to easy breakage on a heavy cabinet.
Depending on damage, you could dam up the outside ends of the handle, pour epoxy and let harden, then drill holes in the sides of the strap and into the epoxy to stiffen up an insert.
pleat
Re: Plastic handles [message #23429 is a reply to message #23418] Tue, 14 July 2015 23:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kustom_Bart is currently offline  Kustom_Bart
Messages: 601
Registered: October 2010
Location: Greenville, MichiGUN
Senior Member
Here is the problem with building a mold, this would not be just an open and shut mold, plus if you are going to take the time to make it a single cavity mold you may as well make it a 4 cavity mold. one shot 4 parts. about .25 ea to mold and that would include the material as long as you used regrind at a high percentage and who cares, it isn't a dashboard showpiece. Open and shut would make the sides, then you have the under cut for the strap this would take a slide and that is where the work begins, timing slides, spotting them, and then finishing and matching the metal where it parts and meets. You have to have a horn pin to move the slide rearward and forward and a heal block to hold it forward while under pressure. This is at all different angles then you need ejector plates to hold your ejector pins that push the pieces out of the mold when they solidify. The material would be P20 steel and it has to be thick enough to not crush, warp, or bend under the pressure of the press. It is cheaper to have someone run it than run it yourself, trust me, I have been down that road. I have my own molds that I have built. I built my own duck and goose call molds and the internal parts (guts) for the calls as well. I got the material for free, machine time for free and got paid to make them because we were slow at work and the boss wouldn't lay me off. He didn't want to lose me to another shop. For you personally to buy the materials and to do this you would have at least 10K into the mold if you could do it all yourself. You would need it programmed and designed first. Not trying to rain on your idea, just not enough demand to recoup your funds. Plus you have to drill water lines throughout the mold bases to keep it all cool and have the fittings and hoses to run the water through it. I used a gun drill on mine, that is more money if you have to pay someone to do it. You will have to have water in the slides as well. A lot of work and money. You will also need a locating ring, spru and runner and gate system and be able to figure out the velocity and speed needed to fill the cavity with the material and possibly vent the cavities and not make them leak out plastic.
Re: Plastic handles [message #23431 is a reply to message #23418] Wed, 15 July 2015 13:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
fieldflower is currently offline  fieldflower
Messages: 71
Registered: July 2004
Location: Sweden
Member
I made a wooden insert for my 215 when I got it.
Completely handmade (knife and hand sanding) out of whatever piece of wood I had lying around.
Painted it several layers, and it turned out great. Can hardly tell which one I made, apart from the screws instead of nails.

But the real deal plastic ones would be great to have access to...
Re: Plastic handles [message #23432 is a reply to message #23418] Wed, 15 July 2015 14:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kustom_Bart is currently offline  Kustom_Bart
Messages: 601
Registered: October 2010
Location: Greenville, MichiGUN
Senior Member
The handles from the link I posted are engineered much better with support ribs for the screw bosses and the ribs also support the strap, they are 10 times better than the original handles. Here is what you do, get a group of you guys together that want or need handles and talk to the guy at the place that has the 15.00 handles and make a bulk order and order 100 or 50 handles and get a good break on them. We did this as a group once before. I ordered 10 handles and still have at least 7 left over. I have a fairly large Kollection and haven't really ever needed handles bad enough to consider a large bulk production run. You can get them cheaper than 15.00 ea if you order them a bunch at a time. It doesn't hurt to ask, right?
Re: Plastic handles [message #23433 is a reply to message #23418] Wed, 15 July 2015 14:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Iowa Boy is currently offline  Iowa Boy
Messages: 767
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Put me down for 10 sets if you decide to buy in bulk.
Re: Plastic handles [message #23434 is a reply to message #23418] Wed, 15 July 2015 17:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
carlc is currently offline  carlc
Messages: 138
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Location: Summerville, SC
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Their bulk prices are not great...and you have to order a bunch. To get a 5% discount you have to order $2,000 to $5,000 worth of stuff.
Re: Plastic handles [message #23435 is a reply to message #23418] Wed, 15 July 2015 18:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slk854 is currently offline  slk854
Messages: 192
Registered: January 2015
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That is what I discovered as well. I talked to the guy. In reality just the plastic part should not be costing any more than $3 to $4 tops. The key is to find out who else is using them in production for their product (if anyone). Really guys I think everyone here can afford the handles for the $15. That is not the problem here. To me it is more of the game to search for the mystery of the plastic handle. Yep I am retired and have lots of time on my hands. It is truly amazing what you can find out with enough diligence..

Common sense would tell you that those handles are not being made for just for Brettuns Village luggage to sell just a few. Like it has been said here the production cost would eat them up for making just a small batch of them. Someone else is using them....

Steve
Re: Plastic handles [message #23436 is a reply to message #23418] Wed, 15 July 2015 19:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slk854 is currently offline  slk854
Messages: 192
Registered: January 2015
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Well someone else is selling them also.. Just found this from a place in Ohio

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc434/hunter12407/002_zpsf4dgkvhc.jpg
Re: Plastic handles [message #23437 is a reply to message #23418] Wed, 15 July 2015 22:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kustom_Bart is currently offline  Kustom_Bart
Messages: 601
Registered: October 2010
Location: Greenville, MichiGUN
Senior Member
Guarantee china made, but sure am sure they are out there, I have some people that I have dealt with there I can put a feeler or two out.
Re: Plastic handles [message #23438 is a reply to message #23437] Wed, 15 July 2015 23:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pleat is currently offline  pleat
Messages: 1434
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi
Senior Member
The originals are 4 1/4" wide in spacing.
pleat
Re: Plastic handles [message #23439 is a reply to message #23418] Thu, 16 July 2015 00:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slk854 is currently offline  slk854
Messages: 192
Registered: January 2015
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I did notice that in the advertisement, but I bet they are the same. I am going to talk to them tomorrow, and will ask the guy to actually measure the inside spread.

Steve
Re: Plastic handles [message #23440 is a reply to message #23418] Thu, 16 July 2015 11:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slk854 is currently offline  slk854
Messages: 192
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Here is the consumer site for the wholesaler I spoke with. They do have the correct measurements on this site, but the prices are the same as Brettuns. At least it gives us 2 different sites to choose from

http://www.hardwareelf.com/elf/handles.jsp


Steve
Re: Plastic handles [message #23443 is a reply to message #23418] Thu, 16 July 2015 12:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slk854 is currently offline  slk854
Messages: 192
Registered: January 2015
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Ok guys here is what I think is a great deal. There is only a $30 min order. This is 1/2 the price of retail places. I spoke with the wholesaler, and this is a reply they just sent back to me:

Steve,


Bulk wholesale price would be $7.75 each for the L-157. We will be happy to work with you and set up an account for your collector club. You have to have an account to order wholesale.
Re: Plastic handles [message #23444 is a reply to message #23443] Thu, 16 July 2015 12:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Iowa Boy is currently offline  Iowa Boy
Messages: 767
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What about the inside measurement?
Re: Plastic handles [message #23445 is a reply to message #23444] Thu, 16 July 2015 13:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pleat is currently offline  pleat
Messages: 1434
Registered: June 2004
Location: Belding, Mi
Senior Member
I'm confused. The H157 handle shows 4" center to center strap spacing. The Hardware Elf site shows a H-070 handle with a center to center spacing of 4 7/16". The original Kustom handle is 4 1/4" center to center spacing. I have one right in front of me for measuring.
So am I missing something?
The Brettens handle is the proper spacing according to collectors who have purchased them.
pleat
Re: Plastic handles [message #23449 is a reply to message #23418] Thu, 16 July 2015 14:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slk854 is currently offline  slk854
Messages: 192
Registered: January 2015
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The elf place gets theirs from the wholesaler:http://www.ohiotravelbag.com/Products.html

The crazy thing is the handles I have on my cabs all measure something a little different, but out of them all 4 1/4 center to center seams to be the correct measurement. The elf place is giving you center to center of the stud. The wholesaler is giving you inside measurements which is approximate. I would bet they are exactly the same as Brettuns handles. I bet also that the wholesaler is selling them to Brettuns as well. I think the best thing to do would be to give Ohio Travel Bag a call and ask them to actually measure center to center of the handle part. Hey even better yet if someone here knows anyone close to that wholesaler they could stop in and measure them.

A 50% discount is not too shabby in my book if they are the right size handles..

Steve

[Updated on: Thu, 16 July 2015 15:13]

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Re: Plastic handles [message #23451 is a reply to message #23418] Thu, 16 July 2015 17:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kustom_Bart is currently offline  Kustom_Bart
Messages: 601
Registered: October 2010
Location: Greenville, MichiGUN
Senior Member
I checked one of my new handles and it measures 4 3/16" inside and an original handle is about.030 narrower, but it could be pinched together from mounting. The new handle I have was tweaked a little bit and measured 4.200" center to center on the holes so they are 4 1/4" like the pic states center to center of the mounting holes and 4 3/16" between the straps and that is what the originals are or very close to that measurement.


I measured the inside Dim. at the handle not at the ends, so have the guy measure at the handle level and you will have the answer. Smile
Re: Plastic handles [message #23466 is a reply to message #23418] Mon, 20 July 2015 20:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slk854 is currently offline  slk854
Messages: 192
Registered: January 2015
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This is the note I received today:

Steve,



I measured 4 of the L-157 and all the measurements a slightly different. The sides of the handles can be bent slightly. This would explain the difference in measurements. The measurement I can up with is 4 ½" from center screw to center screw.



The black plastic handle measures 4 ¼" at the bottom, the sides are rounded, so I took the bottom measurement.


From this I am assuming that the handle in question is right for our application. They measured the inside of the handle right at the bottom of the plastic.

Steve
Re: Plastic handles [message #24086 is a reply to message #23418] Thu, 29 October 2015 13:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AshleyAckley is currently offline  AshleyAckley
Messages: 17
Registered: October 2015
Location: Minneapolis
Junior Member
I am all over this thread! Carrying my stuff in and out every weekend sucks when your grabbing bare metal.

Slow to wit but worth the wait.
Re: Plastic handles [message #24106 is a reply to message #24086] Fri, 30 October 2015 15:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kustom_Bart is currently offline  Kustom_Bart
Messages: 601
Registered: October 2010
Location: Greenville, MichiGUN
Senior Member
Buy them, they work great! If you take the new ones and saw off the mounts that are incorrect and use the new strap and new handle, use your old mounts after you steel wool them up, it looks like you have new handles and they are a much better design than the originals too.
Re: Plastic handles [message #24107 is a reply to message #23418] Fri, 30 October 2015 18:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Iowa Boy is currently offline  Iowa Boy
Messages: 767
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Hey if you want original....someone on Ebay has a pair for $100......crazy as it sounds.(hope its not one of our members)
Re: Plastic handles [message #24115 is a reply to message #23418] Sun, 01 November 2015 16:12 Go to previous message
Kustom_Bart is currently offline  Kustom_Bart
Messages: 601
Registered: October 2010
Location: Greenville, MichiGUN
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It is the same guy that makes the wooden inserts and sells "Original" knobs for 20-30.00 ea.. The new inserts are molded much better and will last and not twist inside the strap like the originals and break.
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